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Old 11-22-2016, 09:53 AM
 
903 posts, read 308,387 times
Reputation: 540

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Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
I like that you remain "unconvinced" by facts like there being financial products out there that can help provide a safety net for people.

Your POV is to advocate for handouts over education and personal responsibility, thats not what is going to help people thrive.
Where are those facts?
The great financial firms created fraudulent CDO's that were riddled with subprime mortages, marketed them as A rated, meanwhile they were shorting the same betting they would collapse?

And you are hear saying, let's all invest or future retirement outcomes with these same players?
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:54 AM
 
10,508 posts, read 3,961,309 times
Reputation: 5135
Trump got sworn in early and is making appointments already? Wow. How did that happen without me hearing about it?
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:56 AM
 
11,328 posts, read 5,935,771 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman0war View Post
Where are those facts?
The great financial firms created fraudulent CDO's that were riddled with subprime mortages, marketed them as A rated, meanwhile they were shorting the same betting they would collapse?

And you are hear saying, let's all invest or future retirement outcomes with these same players?
You are comparing apples and oranges, but this is an excellent real time example of why we need to teach personal finance K-12.

CDOs and sub-prime mortgages literally have zero impact on the types of insurance products I was talking about. One is an investment with zero guarantees the other is an insurance product with is a legal contract.

Also, basic personal finance classes would make it very clear to anyone that investing in CDOs and subprime mortgages were HIGHLY risky and not products to be invested in for a simple retirement account.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:56 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,577 posts, read 5,471,842 times
Reputation: 5313
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman0war View Post
Ordinary people are generally not great investors.
Should they loose their retirement funds due to poor decisions or to fraudulent financial products; should they be left to die?
Remember, in the far-right universe, everyone is an above-average investor. If they're not, it means they're just lazy and deserve to suffer.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:58 AM
 
903 posts, read 308,387 times
Reputation: 540
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
You are comparing apples and oranges, but this is an excellent real time example of why we need to teach personal finance K-12.

CDOs and sub-prime mortgages literally have zero impact on the types of insurance products I was talking about. One is an investment with zero guarantees the other is an insurance product with is a legal contract.
Feel free to PM me some of that detail and i'll make up my own mind.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:58 AM
 
11,328 posts, read 5,935,771 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
Remember, in the far-right universe, everyone is an above-average investor. If they're not, it means they're just lazy and deserve to suffer.
Wrong again, I've said several times in this thraed and in other threads that we need to teach personal finance in K-12. It doesn't take anything better than a C student to grasp and implement a plan that would suit them very well for a comfortable retirement.
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Old 11-22-2016, 09:58 AM
 
12,773 posts, read 4,608,836 times
Reputation: 5179
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
I like that you remain "unconvinced" by facts like there being financial products out there that can help provide a safety net for people.

Your POV is to advocate for handouts over education and personal responsibility, thats not what is going to help people thrive.
These financial products are often woefully inadequate and need lots of government oversight to prevent them from doing what they always do, rip people off and leave people destitute. We all know how much these same people who advocate privatization of everything also hate government oversight and regulations. Its a total disaster and 99.9% of the population would be far worse off in this Darwinian hellhole. The amount of human suffering and subsequent crime and social ills in this type of hellhole is something most libertarians dont fully acknowledge.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:01 AM
 
11,328 posts, read 5,935,771 times
Reputation: 3550
Quote:
Originally Posted by jman0war View Post
Feel free to PM me some of that detail and i'll make up my own mind.
Sure, let me just "PM" an education on personal finance.

Google things like personal disability insurance, look into ETFs like VIG, VYM, or any index fund thats broad based with dividends and has an expense below 0.25%, look for things like target date ETFs. Subscribe to a magazine like Kiplingers Personal Finance. None of this takes any significant investment other than a bit of time to read and research.
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:05 AM
 
66,317 posts, read 30,202,952 times
Reputation: 8617
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
It's funny how none of that was a problem when the bankers needed $700 billion after they took excessive risks with other people's money.
That's nothing compared to the $2 Trillion Fannie and Freddie needed because their HUD Affordable Lending mandate forced them to buy high-risk loans made to what would otherwise be unqualified borrowers had Fannie and Freddie maintained normal lending standards.

Follow the money...

The Federal Reserve created $2 Trillion in QE to buy Fannie and Freddie MBS, and is just going to let those $2 Trillion in Fannie and Freddie MBS roll off their balance sheet as they mature, paid or not. Meanwhile, $2 Trillion in QE was artificially injected into the economy, taxpayers are paying the interest on that $2 Trillion in additional debt (US Treasury Bonds were likely created to finance that $2 Trillion in Fannie and Freddie MBS purchases), and the $2 Trillion in artificial QE injected into the economy has devalued the US $.

Proof:

The Federal Reserve's Agency (Agency = GSE: Fannie and Freddie) MBS (Mortgage-Backed Securities) in 2008: $0
FRB: H.4.1 Release--Factors Affecting Reserve Balances--December 4, 2008

The Federal Reserve's current Agency (GSE: Fannie and Freddie) MBS: $1.74 Trillion
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h41/current/

And WHY would Fannie and Freddie need a $2 Trillion bailout? Because HUD, as their self-described regulator, required that 50+% of the mortgages Fannie and Freddie financed be made to low-income, high-risk, and/or credit-compromised borrowers:
Quote:
"Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, government-sponsored enterprises (GSEs) in the secondary mortgage market, are the two largest sources of housing finance in the United States. They fund these mortgages by purchasing loans directly from primary market mortgage originators, such as mortgage bankers and depository institutions, and holding these loans in portfolio, or by acting as a conduit and issuing mortgage-backed securities (MBS), which are then sold in the capital markets to a wide variety of investors.

...HUD is the mission regulator for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac, and a major aspect of this regulation involves setting minimum percentage-of-business goals for the GSEs’ mortgage purchases. These housing (or lending) goals deal with the enterprises’ support for low-income lending and lending in underserved geographic areas."
https://www.huduser.gov/publications/pdf/gse.pdf

Read the document and the increasingly higher percentage "Affordable Lending" mortgage purchase goals set by the Clinton/Cisneros HUD.

More info on how the $2 trillion mortgage bailout happened:
De facto bailout for Freddie and Fannie? | Roosevelt Institute

Oh, and just for grins... tens of thousands of those low-income, high-risk, and/or credit-compromised borrowers who are already 5+ years behind on their mortgages will get their homes for free because the statute of limitations will expire or has already expired on foreclosure:
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/30/bu...ires.html?_r=0

Banks took down the economy in 2008, my ***. The federal government itself took down the economy with their stupid "Affordable Lending" policies. Even Democrat Barney Frank admits it:
Quote:
"Asked about the government's affordable housing goals compelling Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac before the crisis to devote more than half their portfolios to riskier nonprime mortgages for low-income borrowers, Frank blurted out: "No more goals, no more telling the private sector how to invest in the housing market.
http://64.70.12.11/Events/Barney-Fra...s/10737441405/

Let that sink in... "No more telling the private sector how to invest in the housing market."

"Telling"...
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Old 11-22-2016, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Divided Tribes of America
13,577 posts, read 5,471,842 times
Reputation: 5313
Quote:
Originally Posted by t206 View Post
Wrong again, I've said several times in this thraed and in other threads that we need to teach personal finance in K-12. It doesn't take anything better than a C student to grasp and implement a plan that would suit them very well for a comfortable retirement.
You're assuming they have any income left over after paying for basic necessities. And you're assuming that there isn't an entire Wall Street marketing apparatus designed to separate the vulnerable from their money.

Neither are good assumptions.
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