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LPs boiling or vaporization point is -45, Butane is 30.2 above. Yep, the latter is worthless in minus temp. LP is much beter, but I predict these protesters will be taxing their containers to pulling frost lines, because of trying to run to much with to little, simply put. That creates a dangerous condition. Diesel won't help them either, as you say. Heating equipment will take skilled people to keep running. Very skilled. Just knowing how to light a pilot won't be enough. And again as you said, 24/7 watching.
Heating systems are something I understand and know quite well. And properties of various fuels. This protest is a giant train wreck waiting to happen. Know nothings with fuel burning equipment and flame producing devices and not much more. It's a recipe for disaster and a serious workload for local burn wards and EMS/fire service. I've worked a long time in the field of heating and other fuel burning equipment like boilers and hydronic systems. The problems that arise from sub freezing cold and the things I've seen people do trying to solve those issues are hair curling.
Lack of know and lack of respect for the fuel being the main cause. Now here you'll have a bunch of desperate freezing people trying to make things burn. May as well give the keys to a bunker full of explosives to Beavis and Butthead and hand them a weed burner.
Indians have been living on the plains for centuries. Maybe they know how to do it? I do know that supporting tribes have sent semi-loads of firewood to the protest camp for warmth. If they have shelter from the wind and a camp fire, they are good. The big problem will be keeping the drinking water from freezing solid.
The big survival problem will be the Corps coming in and destroying the shelters. It's how the Army depopulated the Great Plains after the Civil War, when they attacked the Indian winter camps, burned their shelters and killed their livestock. The only difference is that this time they will have to do it in front of a video camera.
But the protestors are attacking private property. The police's whole job is to protect private property with force if necessary.
We have a winner! This pipeline is not on reservation property, it's private so the Indians have no say. The police are not wrong here, it is an effective way for them to get the upperhand without hurting anyone. They should use the same tactics on those hippies protesting trumps win. Tired of liberals and thier disruptive protests. I think America is tired of them too. They need to take a bath, clean themselves up and get jobs then and only then will they be too busy to protest and be constantly offended.
We have a winner! This pipeline is not on reservation property, it's private so the Indians have no say. The police are not wrong here, it is an effective way for them to get the upperhand without hurting anyone. They should use the same tactics on those hippies protesting trumps win. Tired of liberals and thier disruptive protests. I think America is tired of them too. They need to take a bath, clean themselves up and get jobs then and only then will they be too busy to protest and be constantly offended.
Whoever told you it is private property lied to you. The Corps of Engineers is exercising ownership rights. As much as people would like to think DAPL owns the Corps of Engineers, it does not. The CoE is a federal agency.
Whoever told you it is private property lied to you. The Corps of Engineers is exercising ownership rights. As much as people would like to think DAPL owns the Corps of Engineers, it does not. The CoE is a federal agency.
I think this is closer to a reality than either of us would like.
We have a winner! This pipeline is not on reservation property, it's private so the Indians have no say. The police are not wrong here, it is an effective way for them to get the upperhand without hurting anyone. They should use the same tactics on those hippies protesting trumps win. Tired of liberals and thier disruptive protests. I think America is tired of them too. They need to take a bath, clean themselves up and get jobs then and only then will they be too busy to protest and be constantly offended.
The Corps of Engineers owns that easement where the pipeline is put through. Thus the COE wants them off. First, the COE did agree the protesters could be on the Corps land but with the understanding no permanent structures to be built. Lo and behold they built structures.
But I know following much of the SM info people go back to the Ft Laramie Treaty in 1868 where the US gave the Sioux nation that land up to Mandan city itself and thus that is what they claim when they say this is tribal land. Using that map of territory given in 1868 to the Sioux nation....they could claim all of western SD as tribal land including the city of Rapid City....
Now I dont agree with this stance.... but that seems to be where the ruckus is as indeed the pipeline is not on any Native American land currently owned. I dont understand the water protection as the pipeline already goes under the Missouri River 140 upstream near Williston....and the Energy company building it got the approved easements for the pipeline a few years ago from the respective land owners along its path, which is not in current Reservation territory, either near SR or up near Fort Berthold. Not the mention there is already a natural gas pipeline under the Missouri along the same path.
From my following the information locally the majority of SR folks do want the protesters there. The chairman who was shopping in Bismarck Friday, was the one who lets this goes on, the same chairman who wants to boycott Bis-Man businesses, so he can have them to himself I guess.
We will see if the Corps keeps their word. The snow and wind event for Monday should help them.
Obama can leave this bucket of worms for Trump, not going to be easy.
Trump has been revealed as one of the owners of this project. The long stream of conflicts-of-interest begins, before the vote recounts have even been done. The passing of Castro opens the niche he occupied as #1 abusive dictator of the hemisphere.
Indians have been living on the plains for centuries. Maybe they know how to do it? I do know that supporting tribes have sent semi-loads of firewood to the protest camp for warmth. If they have shelter from the wind and a camp fire, they are good. The big problem will be keeping the drinking water from freezing solid.
The big survival problem will be the Corps coming in and destroying the shelters. It's how the Army depopulated the Great Plains after the Civil War, when they attacked the Indian winter camps, burned their shelters and killed their livestock. The only difference is that this time they will have to do it in front of a video camera.
(SIGH) Maybe, just maybe, there's somebody with some sort of clue how to manage fuel burning gear. That's what's scary. Just enough knowledge to be dangerous. And in minus Temps it takes more than a fire and a wind break to avoid hypothermia.
Just being an Indian doesn't mean the know how to survive Winter in the open comes inherently. My ancestors navigated the oceans with a lodestone and the stars. Doesn't mean I was born with or even taught that ability. Most of them have been used to a T Stat or maybe a wood stove. Inside a modern house with insulated walls and proper vent stacks on the heating gear.
It's not a matter of if that something bad will happen with heat sources. Something will happen. That's a bet to let it ride on. I'm sure there are tribal and non tribal people there who can pull off conditions for survivable comfort. But hardly all of them and nobody is overseeing safety protocol for anything. It's fend for yourself. It won't be a pretty sight at the end.
The upcoming winter....which is off to a terribly slow start...is the main reason the COE is telling them to get off COE owned land. If people perish from the cold on government property....could the federal government be held responsible? Might so. So does make sense to move the folks back to an area where they can be better managed and camps better set up if they insist on staying so at least you dont have mass frostbite or death.
Why should the government have to protect people from their self-endangerment?
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