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Old 11-25-2016, 07:07 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,904,321 times
Reputation: 7740

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
The democrats always like to say that charter schools are "draining" tax dollars from the public schools. I am wondering, if you are removing the income, but simultaneously removing the expense, how is it draining anything? Isn't it a wash? For example, in my home state of NJ, we pay upwards of $30K per student per year in the poorest school districts. So if you take away that $30K, but you also take away that student that is costing $30K, it seems like it is neutral to me, not a loss. With less students, the schools use less resources and needs to pay less teachers and administrators.
Except the flaw in your argument and the funding formulas, is that if that student leaves the school, the school's expenses don't magically go down by the same amount.

It's like if you're a household of five people, and the oldest child goes off to college...even if the parents are paying zero for the college student from that point forward, the household expenses don't decrease by 20%. Yet that is how these funding formulas work.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,904,321 times
Reputation: 7740
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
What educational outcomes are you looking for? .
Better grades, better test scores, more kids graduating and going on to college, etc. This isn't rocket science here.

By the way...you never answered why DeVos is a "great" pick for Secretary of Education.

It's looking more and more like the Trump admin will be "by the billionaires and for the billionaires", in my view.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:09 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
10,927 posts, read 10,181,499 times
Reputation: 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
Except the flaw in your argument and the funding formulas, is that if that student leaves the school, the school's expenses don't magically go down by the same amount.

It's like if you're a household of five people, and the oldest child goes off to college...even if the parents are paying zero for the college student from that point forward, the household expenses don't decrease by 20%. Yet that is how these funding formulas work.
They do if you downsize accordingly.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:12 AM
 
8,789 posts, read 4,712,032 times
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Think any people like Devros is because they feel will be the one to do away with Common Core and transfer power to the State's.

Last edited by RunD1987; 11-25-2016 at 07:38 AM..
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:12 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
7,215 posts, read 7,904,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
They do if you downsize accordingly.
Downsize what? You can't magically downsize a building, maintenance costs...you still are going to need X amount of staff to work and teach.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:14 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
10,927 posts, read 10,181,499 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
Downsize what? You can't magically downsize a building, maintenance costs...you still are going to need X amount of staff to work and teach.
Are we talking about a home or a school? If we are talking about a school, you can let teachers and administrators go until such a point where you can combine two schools into one building and sell off the other property.

And the best outcome would be if the schools ended up upping there game to the point where parents would choose NOT to leave.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:15 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
The democrats always like to say that charter schools are "draining" tax dollars from the public schools. I am wondering, if you are removing the income, but simultaneously removing the expense, how is it draining anything? Isn't it a wash? For example, in my home state of NJ, we pay upwards of $30K per student per year in the poorest school districts. So if you take away that $30K, but you also take away that student that is costing $30K, it seems like it is neutral to me, not a loss. With less students, the schools use less resources and needs to pay less teachers and administrators.
That's been asked numerous times, and they never have an answer.

Quote:
I don't pretend to know a whole lot about this issue, so I would like someone to explain to me how this is "draining" tax dollars from public schools.

Why am I not to believe that this is nothing more than the democrats supporting and defending the public school teacher's union?
Because that's what it is. Teacher's unions donate a LOT of money to Dem campaigns, and consequently the Dems fight vehemently to protect teachers' guaranteed jobs (tenure), even though it significantly negaatively impacts their voter base's children in lost educational opportunities and therefore keeps them perpetually socioeconomically disadvantaged.

It's a win/win for the Dems. They get the teacher's unions' donations, AND they get a perpetually dumbed-down and therefore poor voter base that will always vote Dem for the government handout freebies.
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:19 AM
 
17,722 posts, read 19,785,288 times
Reputation: 7409
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
Better grades, better test scores, more kids graduating and going on to college, etc. This isn't rocket science here.

By the way...you never answered why DeVos is a "great" pick for Secretary of Education.

It's looking more and more like the Trump admin will be "by the billionaires and for the billionaires", in my view.
Nobody asked me "why", but since you did ask... I can't tell you... its not that I don't have a reason, I just don't want to spoil what is about to come... my choice...

Better grade, better test scores, graduate from college... to become a bartender? You see the problem? All of what you wanted was really not based in reality... Not everyone is going to be next Einstein... your expectation of certain outcomes are foolish... maybe the parents wants the kids to take over the family business, maybe the parents identify the kids as having natural talent with their hands and wants the kids to train in vocational schools where there is high demand for welders, maybe the parents wants the kids to follow their footsteps and become aeronautic machinists, maybe the parents know their kids are not as bright but have amazing musical abilities, maybe the parents have an incredibly gifted child and wants to enroll them into the gifted school, maybe the parents... well, you get the point... the parents make the choice... apparently you wanted better grade and test scores without knowing what your kid wanted... that is a problem...
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:20 AM
 
39,443 posts, read 40,753,065 times
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The US spends more per student than most Western countries. Here in PA we spend about $16K per student, if we were a nation that would put us on par with small and very rich countries like Switzerland. We are only about tenth on the list of top spending states.

In the last 2+ decades education spending here has doubled and that is adjust d for inflation, testing scores have remain flat lined. What we are doing is not working, time to try something different and the very first thing that needs to be done is break the monopoly public schools have.

Last edited by thecoalman; 11-25-2016 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 11-25-2016, 07:21 AM
 
66,437 posts, read 30,294,925 times
Reputation: 8660
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaseMan View Post
Except the flaw in your argument and the funding formulas, is that if that student leaves the school, the school's expenses don't magically go down by the same amount.

It's like if you're a household of five people, and the oldest child goes off to college...even if the parents are paying zero for the college student from that point forward, the household expenses don't decrease by 20%. Yet that is how these funding formulas work.
Bad analogy. School systems close down underused schools, or even wings of schools, and consolidate all the time. Households who have a child go off to college, don't.

Chicago Public Schools closed 54 just a few years ago.

https://www.dnainfo.com/chicago/2013...-closings-list
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