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Old 11-25-2016, 07:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
School systems are by and large managed at the local level. If a county wants to allow its residents to send their children to the public school of their choice ("school choice"), it can do so. Some counties allow this, most counties don't, but the Federal Government is not involved.
Not necessarily. The Obama Admin sued Louisiana when they wanted to give disadvantaged children in poorly performing public schools vouchers to attend private schools.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opini...=.f5adf5f4da8d

Quote:
A private school might cost $25,000/year. In my area, private schools cost $30,000-45,000/year.
Where in VA? I sincerely doubt every private school in your area has a tuition of $30,000-$45,000/year.

BTW, I've lived in Northern VA and graduated from the Fairfax County Public School system.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:01 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
Yep. And the result is typically larger class sizes.
Nope. Class size is usually restricted by state law.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Northern NJ/Amagansett, NY
10,997 posts, read 10,207,437 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
If a voucher isn't used, then the funding isn't drained from the local/public school system.

No, what I mean is, you said that the voucher only covers $12,000. So if I'm paying taxes for 1 student to go to public school in Newark, NJ at $30K per year, and he opts to leave with $12,000 voucher, what happens to the other $18,000?

Does the public school get to keep it even though the student no longer attends that school? Does that money go somewhere else?

The only place I'm absolutely sure it does NOT go, is back in my bank account. So where does is go?
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:21 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchmen View Post
I don't want to live in your libertarian paradise where the moment I walk out my front door I am on the hook for privately paying for everything. There are issues with all facets of government, that's for sure, but we get a lot of good out of it as well
Not out of public education...

U.S. public schools educate only 26% of all public school students to even basic grade-level proficiency in math, 38% in reading, by 12th grade.

NAEP - Mathematics and Reading 2013

That in and of itself is bad enough, but pay very careful attention to the much lower basic proficiency percentages for Hispanic and Black students.

Hispanic students' basic math proficiency percentage by 12th grade: 12%
Basic reading proficiency percentage by 12th grade: 23%

Black students' basic math proficiency percentage by 12th grade: 7%
Basic reading proficiency percentage by 12th grade: 16%

Dems will never seriously look at how public schools consistently fail to adequately educate students, with the most egregiously negative impact falling on exactly those who could be helped the most... minorities. Their answer is always "throw more money at it," when we already know that DOESN'T work. Many of the worst-performing school districts (almost always in the inner-cities) have the highest per pupil spending.

And I don't want to hear the 'it's the parents' BS after posting the 25% higher high school graduation rate among the Washington DC voucher students.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:24 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheWatchmen View Post
I don't want to live in your libertarian paradise where the moment I walk out my front door I am on the hook for privately paying for everything.
I feel that educating our nations children is a core function of government. The more educated we are as a nation only makes us stronger. It improves their potential and more importantly to me improves my life because I won;t have to pay for their welfare, keep them in prison etc. That is the inevitable outcome of an uneducated population.

The problem here is what we are doing is not working in many public schools, not all of them mind you but many of them.

Quote:
more spending on education, etc.
I will reiterate. The US spends more per student than many other Western countries. Here in PA education spending has doubled in the past 2+ decades and that is adjusted for inflation. Testing scores are flat lined in that same time span. If PA was a nation we would be spending the same amount per student of very small and rich nations like Switzerland. PA ranks about tenth on the list of top spending states.

Considering all that can you still say with a straight face that funding is the issue?

I do not want to gut education spending, I want to gut how that money is being utilized. At the top of the list is making the schools have accountability to the parents, vouchers provide that accountability.
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Old 11-25-2016, 08:24 AM
 
336 posts, read 270,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Where in VA? I sincerely doubt every private school in your area has a tuition of $30,000-$45,000/year.

BTW, I've lived in Northern VA and graduated from the Fairfax County Public School system.
Washington, D.C. metro area. Private school prices have skyrocketed along with housing prices.

At that price, I should have said the best schools. There are schools in the $15,000-20,000 range, although these schools don't score any higher on standardized tests than the Northern Virginia public schools. Of course, as you know, Northern Virginia has some of the best public schools in the country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AnesthesiaMD View Post
No, what I mean is, you said that the voucher only covers $12,000. So if I'm paying taxes for 1 student to go to public school in Newark, NJ at $30K per year, and he opts to leave with $12,000 voucher, what happens to the other $18,000?

Does the public school get to keep it even though the student no longer attends that school? Does that money go somewhere else?
That's my understanding, although I can't speak for every single state with vouchers. It is possible that some states roll the "savings" into their general fund for other government spending.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:34 AM
 
336 posts, read 270,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
Considering the amount of money we spend and the results what do you suggest other than throwing more money at the problem?
You'll find plenty of ideas in the education forum, but a few of mine...
  • Ensure that every school has high-speed Internet
  • Implement national standards
    • Ensure that every school has time set aside at the end of the day for students to do "homework"
    • Ensure that every elementary school teaches basic computer skills (Word, Excel, etc.)
    • Ensure that every middle school and high school has a computer science program
    • Entire that every high school has an engineering program
    • Establish standardized curriculum for math and science (that we all agree on)
    • Implement standardized computer-based learning for appropriate ages/populations and subject matter
    • Implement standardized computer-based testing for material we agree on (just like we do for the SAT, ACT, etc.)
  • Expand the reach of the nation's best teachers by having them teach many students simultaneously via video conference
    • Grades 6-12 ?
    • Retain in-class teachers and assistants to answer questions, lead exercises, etc.
    • Make recordings of all lessons available to students online
  • Provide scholarship "vouchers" for 2-4 years at a community college to all students that achieve certain scores on standardized tests
  • Award monetary bonuses to teachers whose students meet or exceed certain test scores on nationally standardized tests (adjusted for area demographics, last year's scores, etc.)
  • Exempt teacher salaries (not SS, pensions, or other income) from Federal income tax
I wish Trump would have appointed a leader in technology-based education as the head of the Department of Education. We need to focus on modernizing our schools and leveraging technology to reduce costs, improve education quality, and emphasize STEM.

Last edited by VAGeek; 11-25-2016 at 09:53 AM..
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:37 AM
 
17,804 posts, read 19,821,142 times
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I would add...

Free basic lunches for every student from pre-K to high school. Non-standard items have an additional surcharge. They can choose to bring their own lunch or go to outside places to eat, all of which is on their dime. I would ONLY do this for schools that meet certain Academic standards. Its a way to let the parents know the schools isn't doing well.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:40 AM
 
1,007 posts, read 366,838 times
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I don't know shoe she is, but the education mafia/unions hate her so I love her.
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Old 11-25-2016, 09:57 AM
 
39,498 posts, read 40,823,172 times
Reputation: 16309
Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
You'll find plenty of ideas in the education forum, but a few of mine...
  • Ensure that every school has high-speed Internet
  • Implement national standards
    • Ensure that every school has time set aside at the end of the day for students to do "homework"
    • Ensure that every elementary school teaches basic computer skills (Word, Excel, etc.)
    • Ensure that every middle school and high school has a computer science program
    • Entire that every high school has an engineering program
    • Establish standardized curriculum for math and science (that we all agree on)
    • Implement standardized computer-based learning for appropriate ages/populations and subject matter
    • Implement standardized computer-based testing for material we agree on (just like we do for the SAT, ACT, etc.)
  • Expand the reach of the nation's best teachers by having them teach many students simultaneously via video conference
    • Grades 6-12 ?
    • Retain in-class teachers and assistants to answer questions, lead exercises, etc.
    • Make recordings of all lessons available to students online
I can appreciate your suggestions but these things are secondary to what is wrong IMO, if this is the solution considering the money being spent why are we not doing this now? You can do these things but if the foundation they are sitting on is rotten it's not going to help. I want accountability.


Quote:

  • Provide scholarship "vouchers" for 2-4 years at a community college to all students that achieve certain scores on standardized tests
How about this idea, you provide voucher to the student for k-12. To help prevent the schools from simply setting the cost of education at the value of the voucher you allow the student to bank whatever they do not spend that can be used to pay for education after HS.



Quote:

  • Award monetary bonuses to teachers whose students meet or exceed certain test scores on nationally standardized tests (adjusted for area demographics, last year's scores, etc.)
I realize this is not the case everywhere but a teacher in my area starts around $45K plus the medical plan and the pension. At 10 years they can be making $75K to $85K salary plus the benefits. They are compensated well and I expect them to do their jobs. Such a sytem can also lead to abuse, here in PA they started finding anomalies in standardized testing used to grade schools. After this was exposed and the next year came around high testing scores in numerous districts magically evaporated.


Quote:

  • Exempt teacher salaries (not SS, pensions, or other income) from Federal income tax
Huh? Sure, right after a salary cut,.
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