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Old 11-25-2016, 10:48 AM
 
4,345 posts, read 2,793,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
You'll find plenty of ideas in the education forum, but a few of mine...
  • Exempt teacher salaries (not SS, pensions, or other income) from Federal income tax
I wish Trump would have appointed a leader in technology-based education as the head of the Department of Education. We need to focus on modernizing our schools and leveraging technology to reduce costs, improve education quality, and emphasize STEM.
The teachers' union got Gov. Davis to try that in CA. That's why The Terminator was elected governor.
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Old 11-25-2016, 04:04 PM
 
336 posts, read 378,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
I realize this is not the case everywhere but a teacher in my area starts around $45K plus the medical plan and the pension. At 10 years they can be making $75K to $85K salary plus the benefits. They are compensated well and I expect them to do their jobs. Such a sytem can also lead to abuse, here in PA they started finding anomalies in standardized testing used to grade schools. After this was exposed and the next year came around high testing scores in numerous districts magically evaporated.
The average teacher salary, nationwide, is in the $40-$50K range. Those are the teachers I had in mind when suggesting we exempt teacher pay from Federal income taxes. Obviously, there are outliers, i.e., those making less than $25K and those making over $100K. I suppose an alternative would be to exempt a certain amount of salary (e.g., increase the standard IRS tax deduction).

Very few people become teachers for the money. Teaching is a noble profession and there's no paid position in the world that has a greater influence on our children's future success (and our competitiveness as a nation). Yet there's no doubt in my mind that money, or lack thereof, keeps most of the best and brightest away from the profession. As important as I think the work (teaching) is, I would not give up $100K/year in salary to become a teacher. My family comes first.

I also know that teachers unions would throw a fit over my proposals to leverage technology to reduce the role of teachers in the classroom. But IMO, we've done a pisspoor job of leveraging technology to improve education and cut costs. Technology has greatly improved efficiency and productivity in just about every white collar profession, with teaching being an exception. We don't need to spend more money on K-12 education; we just need to change how and where we spend existing funds. That said, I believe we should be reforming education, not starving it of funds with vouchers that primarily benefit the upper middle class and wealthy.
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:09 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
That said, I believe we should be reforming education, not starving it of funds with vouchers that primarily benefit the upper middle class and wealthy.
I pointed this out before and it may be a good model to look at that addresses many of these concerns. The pilot program that Corbett proposed back in 2010 here in PA was going to target the worst performing and poorest districts in the state, the bottom 10% or whatever it was. They would of been able to use that voucher at a public or private school. A well run public school could in fact benefit from this especially if they had room for students. The other thing I noted was that about half the funding for PA schools comes from the local district, only the state portion would of been used for the voucher. While the overall funding would have decreased the per pupil funding would have increased when they lost a student.
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:39 AM
 
Location: East Lansing, MI
28,353 posts, read 16,381,866 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I'm sure many on the left will vehemently decry the idea of choice when it comes to education just as they do when choice is suggested for so many other things. She will be set upon.


Please explain to me how my tax dollars going to fund private/religious schools doesn't walk all over the idea of the separation of church and state.


Also, DeVos attended private schools (both HS and college), has no degrees in education and has never worked in education. How again is she qualified for that post? Oh, that's right, her family has been long time mega-donors to the GOP. So much for draining the swamp...




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Old 11-26-2016, 06:54 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
89,006 posts, read 44,824,472 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hooligan View Post
Please explain to me how my tax dollars going to fund private/religious schools doesn't walk all over the idea of the separation of church and state.
Your tax dollars already DO go to private/religious schools in the form of taxpayer-funded Pell Grants, scholarships, government-sponsored student loans, research grants, etc... Notre Dame, Georgetown, Boston College, Emory University (which a few years ago successfully treated the two US citizen Ebola victims, AND works VERY closely and frequently in tandem with the CDC), etc., etc.

And how does that not create an overwhelming precedent that tax dollars can indeed go to funding both attending students and faculty, research, expenses, etc., at private/religious schools? There's a very distinct example of Emory University (United Methodist Church) and the CDC working very closely together in several scientific fields, research, etc. The former is a religious institution. The latter is supposed to be a secular government agency. And tax dollars go to both.
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Old 11-26-2016, 06:57 AM
 
Location: Long Island
57,271 posts, read 26,206,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VAGeek View Post
The average teacher salary, nationwide, is in the $40-$50K range. Those are the teachers I had in mind when suggesting we exempt teacher pay from Federal income taxes. Obviously, there are outliers, i.e., those making less than $25K and those making over $100K. I suppose an alternative would be to exempt a certain amount of salary (e.g., increase the standard IRS tax deduction).

Very few people become teachers for the money. Teaching is a noble profession and there's no paid position in the world that has a greater influence on our children's future success (and our competitiveness as a nation). Yet there's no doubt in my mind that money, or lack thereof, keeps most of the best and brightest away from the profession. As important as I think the work (teaching) is, I would not give up $100K/year in salary to become a teacher. My family comes first.

I also know that teachers unions would throw a fit over my proposals to leverage technology to reduce the role of teachers in the classroom. But IMO, we've done a pisspoor job of leveraging technology to improve education and cut costs. Technology has greatly improved efficiency and productivity in just about every white collar profession, with teaching being an exception. We don't need to spend more money on K-12 education; we just need to change how and where we spend existing funds. That said, I believe we should be reforming education, not starving it of funds with vouchers that primarily benefit the upper middle class and wealthy.
I understand salaries are low in some states but certainly not in places like NY, if high salaries were the answer then NYS should be doing great. I am not blaming the teachers but students are unprepared for college level work, community colleges have become grade 12. There needs to be some standards, how does a HS student graduate without at least being capable in English and math.


There are several countries that spend less per student and achieve better scores, the US system is failing and it's not for lack of spending.
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Old 11-26-2016, 07:00 AM
 
7,214 posts, read 9,393,969 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Goodnight View Post
I understand salaries are low in some states but certainly not in places like NY, if high salaries were the answer then NYS should be doing great. I am not blaming the teachers but students are unprepared for college level work, community colleges have become grade 12. There needs to be some standards, how does a HS student graduate without at least being capable in English and math.


There are several countries that spend less per student and achieve better scores, the US system is failing and it's not for lack of spending.
You're right that there should be standards to achieve better outcomes. Those standards currently do not apply to voucher schools, at least not here in Wisconsin.
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Old 11-26-2016, 07:21 AM
 
2,411 posts, read 1,975,530 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by evilnewbie View Post
What educational outcomes are you looking for?

My kids are all grown up and gone so I don't have a dog in the hunt any more - but, if my child were still in the school system, I would want for them the same things I did when they were there (and which my parents wanted for me when I was in school):


a) that they learn to read, write (including physically on a page by printing and using cursive), think, spell, comprehend, do arithmetic without any computer assistance - ONLY the basics in the early grades (plus some art/music/phys ed), absolutely no social engineering permitted (other than practicing how to play nice with each other, etc.)


b) that they not be allowed to pass on to the next grade unless they have completely mastered the material in the current grade - no exceptions, an expectation of excellence needs to be promoted (and failure is not a bad thing if it teaches how to get back on one's feet and with determination, finish the job)


c) recesses, discipline, supervision (enough that safe but active play can be encouraged again and zero tolerance only has to apply to the child who actually needs the discipline), no cellphones or other 'devices' in the classroom (preferably school), LESS, not more, reliance on technology to do the teaching/babysitting, no crap like if you bite your sandwich into something that could resemble a gun you automatically get suspended


d) in higher grades - vocational options and training being promoted as a great alternative to 'college' - not everyone SHOULD go to college and college is not needed for a lot of wonderful opportunities in life, NO MORE TEACHING TO THE TEST - teach for real understanding and to promote excellence


e) that each child emerging from the school system should be able to read and write, do basic arithmetic, understand basic scientific principles, have an awareness of as much real/accurate history and geography of the world around them as possible, know how to discipline themselves to get where they want to go - and have a healthy respect for authority and an understanding of why that should be


f) NO coddling, no participation trophies, no activism allowed - inspire pride in self and respect for others through actual achievement


That is just a framework. I could think of much more if I had to - but back to basics is the critical part - the foundation on which all else in society is built. These things worked for many years and could again - though how you get back to those these days when too many parents/teachers were raised in the permissive generations I do not know.


I doubt all the voucher systems in the world would help to be honest - or if they do, there would be very few who would be helped by them (though that is not to say that in some cases they are not a good idea - but some kids will always do well no matter what situation they are put in and that is probably because their parents are involved and actually demand the kids do well).


Look at where the real fraud is in the school system - often at the administration levels. Fix that! Use the KISS principle. The cost of education could be much lower, teachers could be paid adequately, and there could be much better outcomes - happier, better educated, more well rounded, stronger kids.


The real focus should be on the early grades - if the kids do not have the building blocks/foundation of learning down pat then, nothing you do in the middle and higher grades will ever help to get them back on track. Put the best teachers to teach those early grades - not the lowest paid, lowest qualified ones.
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Old 11-26-2016, 07:22 AM
 
23,974 posts, read 15,082,290 times
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Any public school district can have open enrollment so students could get out of poorly performing schools.

Teachers do not write textbooks or curriculum. Teachers do not design what will be taught in teacher training colleges.

Time was, the best and brightest went into teaching, now it is the bottom 10%.

Principals should never hire anybody who goes into teaching so she can be at home with her kids. Worst reason ever to go into teaching.
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Old 11-26-2016, 08:46 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aery11 View Post
do arithmetic without any computer assistance -
I can't agree with that. I loved learning new math in school but despised the repetitive work involved. I also didn't think in the way most people would address math, what they were teaching me often didn't apply because I came up with my own solutions. Memorizing 9*8 became (9*10)-8, that may seem odd but that evolved and I was able to calculate huge numbers in my head. If I was allowed to use a calculator in school I could of moved onto learning more math.

Being able to work out something on paper may come in handy if your stranded on a island but in a modern world it's like giving someone a shovel when they have at their disposal an excavator.
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