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Yes, very angry. I don't believe deplorable behavior should be rewarded and I do believe that is exactly what the corporate bailouts did. The people in charge of those companies didn't learn their lesson either because they STILL paid themselves huge bonuses after accepting the bailouts. If that had been Joe Smith on welfare buying an iPhone with government money, you'd think it was horrific.
And where ARE the bailouts for Mr. and Mrs. Smith? Once again, TPTB reap benefits of a system they screwed over.
To you and the other Trump supporters who simply refuse to consider the truth of these matters...
Our economy was in free fall, headed toward collapse, and George Bush took advice from just about every economist of note at the time that an infusion of government assistance was NECESSARY. Bush started the process that Obama had no choice but to follow. Fact is, the auto industry made some mistakes, yes, but the Great Recession was taking its toll on everything, everyone.
The goal was not just to keep the auto makers in business and to sustain an industry very important to the U.S., but also to keep many more thousands of innocent people from losing their jobs, more jobs, all the way up and down the manufacturing and supply chain. Thousands of businesses are involved with the auto industry, from parts supply to tires to electronics.
Not to mention that in the end, taxpayers LOANED the money to keep our system afloat, some $430 billion went into banks and auto companies. Sale of stock and interest payments returned over $440 billion to the treasury, tax payers. So what's your beef?
"Deplorable behavior" you say? That American car manufacturers should have known better than to keep pumping out those American-made gas guzzlers that Americans loved so much? Perhaps.
What is more deplorable to me is all too many Americans that don't seem to understand any of this...
And now we have Trump as a result, and sure enough the joke continues as all his followers can't even recognize what he is doing or not doing that is exactly what they have been complaining about!
As just one example of so many at this point, what is now okay about Steven Mnuchin that was not okay according to Trump supporters before?
Answer: Who can know when it comes to what Trump supporters are thinking, but one thing for sure, facts, truth and reason just don't seem to matter anymore...
To you and the other Trump supporters who simply refuse to consider the truth of these matters...
Our economy was in free fall, headed toward collapse, and George Bush took advice from just about every economist of note at the time that an infusion of government assistance was NECESSARY. Bush started the process that Obama had no choice but to follow. Fact is, the auto industry made some mistakes, yes, but the Great Recession was taking its toll on everything, everyone.
The goal was not just to keep the auto makers in business and to sustain an industry very important to the U.S., but also to keep many more thousands of innocent people from losing their jobs, more jobs, all the way up and down the manufacturing and supply chain. Thousands of businesses are involved with the auto industry, from parts supply to tires to electronics.
Not to mention that in the end, taxpayers LOANED the money to keep our system afloat, some $430 billion went into banks and auto companies. Sale of stock and interest payments returned over $440 billion to the treasury, tax payers. So what's your beef?
"Deplorable behavior" you say? That American car manufacturers should have known better than to keep pumping out those American-made gas guzzlers that Americans loved so much? Perhaps.
What is more deplorable to me is all too many Americans that don't seem to understand any of this...
And now we have Trump as a result, and sure enough the joke continues as all his followers can't even recognize what he is doing or not doing that is exactly what they have been complaining about!
As just one example of so many at this point, what is now okay about Steven Mnuchin that was not okay according to Trump supporters before?
Answer: Who can know when it comes to what Trump supporters are thinking, but one thing for sure, facts, truth and reason just don't seem to matter anymore...
You have your facts mixed up. First of all its rather offensive to group all Trump supporters into one "basket" if you will. I know you are a sore loser. She lost, get over it.
The American car manufacturers did not get into financial trouble because they made gas guzzling cars. When the crisis hit, sales plummeted and credit tightened. People could not qualify for loans and the automakers could not get credit to finance operations. I hired a lot of out of work car salespeople during that time for my business and got filled in to what was going on from their perspective too. They would write up a sales contract and run the credit on someone who always got approved in the past but were unable to get credit approval. Also the unions over the years kept pushing for higher wages that made it difficult to be profitable. Ford survived without a bailout because they were run better than the other two. Their fuel efficiency was about the same as the other two.
Read up on Japan and the lost decade. There are consequences to propping failing companies up and making them too big to fail. Japan since the 1980's is a perfect example.
We have a very weak recovery, weakest since WWII. There is a reason for this. A big part of it is poor decisions by Bush and Obama. Interest rates are near zero and the federal debt has skyrocketed and still we are in this stagnation. A change was needed which is why your Queen Mum, Hillary is out of a job now.
Fortunately we have a pro business leader who understands the economy about to take the reigns. When Obama took over 92% of his cabinet had no business private sector experience at all. It is no wonder he failed to get the economy to full speed.
You have your facts mixed up. First of all its rather offensive to group all Trump supporters into one "basket" if you will. I know you are a sore loser. She lost, get over it.
I fully understand there is the typical Trump supporter as those demographics are widely reported, and then there are the "exceptions to the rule," that are hard to account for as well when simply commenting about prevailing Trump sentiments and support in general. I understand the folly of profiling, but on the other hand, when simply commenting about generalities, normally these sorts of distinctions are understood (and forgiven).
But either way, the bit about being a "sore loser" is not only untrue but hardly on point with what makes all of us either "winners" or "losers" as Trump becomes our 45th POTUS. Right? There is a big difference between being a "sore loser" and someone who simply expresses disappointment and dismay over what eventually made it possible for someone like Trump to assume the presidency. Right? Not to mention what it seems Trump is now doing and/or will do as he assumes office.
Or have you in mind that people who don't admire or agree with Trump about most things should now somehow sing his praise and be supportive?
I mean, what does "get over it" even mean? Do you mean like conservatives, the Tea Party and the GOP "got over" Obama's two terms?
The American car manufacturers did not get into financial trouble because they made gas guzzling cars. When the crisis hit, sales plummeted and credit tightened. People could not qualify for loans and the automakers could not get credit to finance operations. I hired a lot of out of work car salespeople during that time for my business and got filled in to what was going on from their perspective too. They would write up a sales contract and run the credit on someone who always got approved in the past but were unable to get credit approval. Also the unions over the years kept pushing for higher wages that made it difficult to be profitable. Ford survived without a bailout because they were run better than the other two. Their fuel efficiency was about the same as the other two.
I don't have my facts "mixed up," but I thank you for the interest and elaboration. Yes of course it was more than just the problem of gas guzzlers, but I didn't suggest that was the only problem that brought the auto makers with hat-in-hand asking for help from Washington. The following factual enough for you before we can move on...?
The automotive industry crisis of 2008–2010 was a part of a global financial downturn. The crisis affected European and Asian automobile manufacturers, but it was primarily felt in the American automobile manufacturing industry. The downturn also affected Canada by virtue of the Automotive Products Trade Agreement.
The automotive industry was weakened by a substantial increase in the prices of automotive fuels linked to the 2003-2008 energy crisis which discouraged purchases of sport utility vehicles (SUVs) and pickup trucks which have low fuel economy. The popularity and relatively high profit margins of these vehicles had encouraged the American "Big Three" automakers, General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler to make them their primary focus. With fewer fuel-efficient models to offer to consumers, sales began to slide. By 2008, the situation had turned critical as the credit crunch placed pressure on the prices of raw materials.
Car companies from Asia, Europe, North America, and elsewhere have implemented creative marketing strategies to entice reluctant consumers as most experienced double-digit percentage declines in sales. Major manufacturers, including the Big Three and Toyota offered substantial discounts across their lineups. The Big Three faced criticism for their lineups, which were seen to be irresponsible in light of rising fuel prices. North American consumers turned to smaller, cheaper, more fuel-efficient imports from Japan and Europe.
To you and the other Trump supporters who simply refuse to consider the truth of these matters...
Our economy was in free fall, headed toward collapse, and George Bush took advice from just about every economist of note at the time that an infusion of government assistance was NECESSARY. Bush started the process that Obama had no choice but to follow. Fact is, the auto industry made some mistakes, yes, but the Great Recession was taking its toll on everything, everyone.
The goal was not just to keep the auto makers in business and to sustain an industry very important to the U.S., but also to keep many more thousands of innocent people from losing their jobs, more jobs, all the way up and down the manufacturing and supply chain. Thousands of businesses are involved with the auto industry, from parts supply to tires to electronics.
Not to mention that in the end, taxpayers LOANED the money to keep our system afloat, some $430 billion went into banks and auto companies. Sale of stock and interest payments returned over $440 billion to the treasury, tax payers. So what's your beef?
"Deplorable behavior" you say? That American car manufacturers should have known better than to keep pumping out those American-made gas guzzlers that Americans loved so much? Perhaps.
What is more deplorable to me is all too many Americans that don't seem to understand any of this...
And now we have Trump as a result, and sure enough the joke continues as all his followers can't even recognize what he is doing or not doing that is exactly what they have been complaining about!
As just one example of so many at this point, what is now okay about Steven Mnuchin that was not okay according to Trump supporters before?
Answer: Who can know when it comes to what Trump supporters are thinking, but one thing for sure, facts, truth and reason just don't seem to matter anymore...
LMFAO I am not a Trump supporter. Time to realize there are those of us who can and do disagree on policies rather than the person.
Read up on Japan and the lost decade. There are consequences to propping failing companies up and making them too big to fail. Japan since the 1980's is a perfect example.
Japan is a different example...
There are consequences of fighting cancer with chemotherapy, but just because there are consequences does not mean there are better options!
Put another way, there are consequences that go with letting the American car manufacturing industry fail and be lost. No one, most certainly including Obama, wanted American tax payer dollars going toward all it took to prevent these important companies and industries from crashing, to keep the entire financial system from collapsing, but just about every economist understood that these measures were necessary, because the consequences of a failed U.S. economy were/are catastrophic, as if the Great Recession wasn't taste enough for all of us, right?
The argument, your argument, goes either way of course. If you want to dismiss the consequences of a Depression in favor of how nice it would be if these measures were not necessary in the first place, as if not necessary, well you are entitled to that opinion of course, but most of those in a position of knowledge and responsibility going back to when the red lights were going off for Bush didn't/don't agree with your view that all should have been left to fail for better or worse.
We have a very weak recovery, weakest since WWII. There is a reason for this. A big part of it is poor decisions by Bush and Obama. Interest rates are near zero and the federal debt has skyrocketed and still we are in this stagnation. A change was needed which is why your Queen Mum, Hillary is out of a job now.
Fortunately we have a pro business leader who understands the economy about to take the reigns. When Obama took over 92% of his cabinet had no business private sector experience at all. It is no wonder he failed to get the economy to full speed.
Yes, there is a reason for how we got to the Great Recession, how we got out of it, and then what it takes to get back to at least a 3% growth in GDP, but you are being awfully selective and narrow minded when it comes to your version as to the reasons all this history has transpired. Again a bit much to address in the space of one comment after so many threads and comments about these issues throughout this forum.
People understand the cause/effect of all this in very different ways, largely depending on their ideology rather than facts, reason and truth, so again I find myself asking, "why bother?"
I'll just keep it simple and reply that poor decisions have been made, yes, but our economy is on the order of nearly $20 trillion strong, representing a little over 20% of the global economy. Presidents have their influence of course, coupled with that of Congress and all the rest, but ultimately the economy has a way of its own that can't be "bottled" in any significant way over the course of one presidential term or even two. These economic events are born from decades of development, and of course it takes time for the ups and downs to materialize.
Fact is, if anyone considers the important numbers before and during Obama's administration; job losses and/or gains, GDP, home-owner equity, 401K values, stock market drops/gains, etc., you are sorely biased not to give Obama some credit for having us in better shape according to most of these significant measures. Perhaps another fact worthy of note, of course never mentioned or considered by those who can't give Obama credit for anything good, is the following:
The GDP growth of the United States has beaten the other NATO countries by a wider margin under President Obama than it has under any previous president since FDR.
Put another way, everything is relative. We all know this, but when it comes to what people compare and judge, of course anyone can easily say our economic growth under Obama has not been the best ever. That's where anti-Obama types always like to start, but how intelligent or fair is that? I mean for the love of economics...
Even more frustrating is the credit Trumpsters are already giving Trump for the economic upswing that Obama is handing over to him, as compared to what Bush handed Obama...?
I fully understand there is the typical Trump supporter as those demographics are widely reported, and then there are the "exceptions to the rule," that are hard to account for as well when simply commenting about prevailing Trump sentiments and support in general. I understand the folly of profiling, but on the other hand, when simply commenting about generalities, normally these sorts of distinctions are understood (and forgiven).
But either way, the bit about being a "sore loser" is not only untrue but hardly on point with what makes all of us either "winners" or "losers" as Trump becomes our 45th POTUS. Right? There is a big difference between being a "sore loser" and someone who simply expresses disappointment and dismay over what eventually made it possible for someone like Trump to assume the presidency. Right? Not to mention what it seems Trump is now doing and/or will do as he assumes office.
Or have you in mind that people who don't admire or agree with Trump about most things should now somehow sing his praise and be supportive?
I mean, what does "get over it" even mean? Do you mean like conservatives, the Tea Party and the GOP "got over" Obama's two terms?
This is politics, not church choir...
IBD had one of the most accurate polls in both 2012 and this year. You are way off as is the MSM with who Trump voters were:
Clinton led Trump among voters with college degrees 44% to 40% -within the margin of error.
Trump led Clinton among voters with some college 50% to 32%
People who did not attend college broke for Clinton, sorry to confuse you with facts.
Upper income people strongly supported Trump, lower income people strongly supported Clinton.
People who want lower taxes and business friendly environment were for Trump. The poorer folks who want continued handouts of course wanted Clinton.
Educated successful people propelled Trump to victory. That may not be the narrative the liberal media is trying to portray and you bought into.
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