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Old 11-30-2016, 08:58 AM
 
78,416 posts, read 60,593,823 times
Reputation: 49698

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Ok, time to kill the thread.

Top Illinois High Schools | Best High Schools in Illinois | US News

Lo and behold, preparatory and magnet schools dominating the list in a non-republican bastion with a strong teachers union.

But I'm hearing this schooling model is a Republican plot to ruin education? lol.

Both parties love magnet\charter\private schools because they're the elites and they're not sending their kids to the public schools....at least not in most cities in the US.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:58 AM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
Reputation: 17864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Our own high school graduation rates are higher than ever.
And?

Officials: NYC High School Students Entering CUNY Need Remedial Help « CBS New York

That diploma is nothing more than toilet paper if you need remedial reading/math classes after HS.
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Old 11-30-2016, 08:59 AM
 
8,081 posts, read 6,959,794 times
Reputation: 7983
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mathguy View Post
Ok, time to kill the thread.

Top Illinois High Schools | Best High Schools in Illinois | US News

Lo and behold, preparatory and magnet schools dominating the list in a non-republican bastion with a strong teachers union.

But I'm hearing this schooling model is a Republican plot to ruin education? lol.

Both parties love magnet\charter\private schools because they're the elites and they're not sending their kids to the public schools....at least not in most cities in the US.
They don't have to take students from certain demographics nor are they required to have programs for the disabled.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:04 AM
 
1,850 posts, read 820,628 times
Reputation: 815
Quote:
Originally Posted by JGMotorsport64 View Post
Is it better to starve them? What is the cost of producing a school lunch to the taxpayer? I think in my district the actual cost of the meal per student is around 15 cents. I can deal with that over letting them starve.
Ah, the liberal method of thinking. It's always "is it better to starve them?" or "is it better that they not get healthcare?" or "is it better that blah blah blah?" They're never at a loss to come up with great ideas to spend other people's money on.


You know who should care the most that kids are starving? Uh ....their parents. Like, maybe not have kids if you can't even buy them food. How about that piece of brilliance? Instead, thanks to the aforementioned "logic," it's like "why, I'll just have a kid and then it's everyone else's job to figure out what to do with it!"
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Austin
15,632 posts, read 10,390,278 times
Reputation: 19524
Quote:
Originally Posted by Katarina Witt View Post
Or perhaps the other countries caught up, and in some cases surpassed us. Our own high school graduation rates are higher than ever. There's also the issue of what "high school graduate" means in various countries. In many European countries, some students are done at the end of 10th grade. Both our college attendance rates and graduation rates are up as well.
UK Education System | Study in the UK

Let's compare apples and apples. From the same referenced study I posted previously:

The report bases its conclusions about achievement mainly on international test scores released last December. They show that compared with their peers in Europe, Asia and elsewhere, 15-year-olds in the United States are below average in applying math skills to real-life tasks.

Last edited by texan2yankee; 11-30-2016 at 09:14 AM..
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:08 AM
 
Location: NE Ohio
30,419 posts, read 20,306,967 times
Reputation: 8958
Quote:
Originally Posted by SnakeEagle1 View Post
Always talking about cutting teacher benefits, firing teachers, whining against Teacher Unions,but never going after corporate welfare. What's the deal ?
Are you having a hard time figuring this out? You must not be a parent, or you are paying no attention to what kids are "learning." They aren't being taught important subjects anymore, but are being indoctrinated with Leftist gobbledygook. Hell, they aren't even being taught cursive handwriting anymore, so kids cannot read it! How do they even sign their names? With an "X"?
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:13 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,386 posts, read 60,575,206 times
Reputation: 60996
Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
And?

Officials: NYC High School Students Entering CUNY Need Remedial Help « CBS New York

That diploma is nothing more than toilet paper if you need remedial reading/math classes after HS.
I started college in 1973 and there were remedial classes then. The numbers today may indicate that more kids are going to college who maybe shouldn't.

The increase in graduation rates has been targeted and is one of the metrics used to judge school and teacher effectiveness.

Here's a little known factoid that someone brought up earlier, the average reading level of a high school graduate in 2015 is 8th grade. That was what it was in 1955, too. That's why government forms and most newspapers have been written at a 6th or 7th grade level for decades.

The reality is that 30 years ago kids dropped out, now they don't.

Here's another reality. Every school reform initiative, every single one of them, over the last 30 years since A Nation At Risk came out has been aimed at raising the achievement one, now two, specific student cohorts. Every single one.

The last graduation I officially attended was 2014. That class of around 240 kids still had about 10% of the students, mostly boys, being the first one in their family graduate high school.
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:16 AM
 
2,295 posts, read 2,369,154 times
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Bottom line, they aren't going after teachers. I know that makes for a better alarmist, emotional tag line, and to our detriment, that's what politics has been boiled down to, sound bites. What good does it do to continue providing pay, and other funding to under-performing schools? We should reward failing schools, that are failing to educate our children? There have to be standards. If schools fail to meet established standards, they should get a warning the first year. The second year, it's time to change administrators and teachers. It is pretty clear that despite assurances to the contrary, teachers are no longer in that profession for noble goal of educating our youth. Some are, and that is commendable. I am fortunate that the school system my children attend(ed), has some phenomenal teachers. That same district also receives commendable ratings every year, and is a very good public district. Many teachers are punching a clock, and want nothing to do with being held accountable for results. That isn't how life works. You get paid for your work. If your work is consistently below the standard, you should no longer be paid for your poor results. Teachers unions are powerful lobbies that oppose ANY efforts to hold teachers/administrators/schools accountable for achieving standards. They want ever increasing salaries/benefits, while simultaneously being exempt from any accountability for poor results. That isn't how the world works.

To add a wrinkle, the Texas Education Agency's "Wealth Equalization Data" plan, or Robin Hood law is a prime example of throwing good money after bad. Under the plan, that somehow recently survived a State Supreme Court ruling, districts that are "property wealthy", and forced to share the wealth with districts that are "property poor". This results, in the case of my district, in nearly 60% of the property tax revenues being recaptured by the state, and redistributed to "property poor" districts in, and around San Antonio. The districts that receive the funding have all sorts of technology that my district doesn't have. iPads for all students, new MacBookPros for teachers and staff every school year. The end result? The schools on the receiving end of the recaptured funding never see any improvement in test scores, graduation rates, or any other indicator of educational success. There were two schools in the same Independent School District in San Antonio that recently had two back to back years of failing standards, and finally were "reconstituted", meaning the entire staff was fired. The wringing of hands, and gnashing of teeth was all over the news. What did the district do? Hired back all those same people that were fired in the first place.

Last edited by TXStrat; 11-30-2016 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:17 AM
 
1,850 posts, read 820,628 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
Here's a little known factoid that someone brought up earlier, the average reading level of a high school graduate in 2015 is 8th grade. That was what it was in 1955, too. That's why government forms and most newspapers have been written at a 6th or 7th grade level for decades.
Yeah, and oddly, that's never impacted teachers. That's the point we're making. I mean, if I said, "hey, look, engineers are doing great, I mean, their buildings are only collapsing at the same rate as they were in 1865," you'd probably laugh. Or if I said, "doctors are doing as great as they were in 1955!" you'd edge away. But if teachers are doing as well as they were in 1955, it's like "oh, well! Is it time for raise yet?"
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Old 11-30-2016, 09:29 AM
 
Location: On the Chesapeake
45,386 posts, read 60,575,206 times
Reputation: 60996
Quote:
Originally Posted by njquestions View Post
Yeah, and oddly, that's never impacted teachers. That's the point we're making. I mean, if I said, "hey, look, engineers are doing great, I mean, their buildings are only collapsing at the same rate as they were in 1865," you'd probably laugh. Or if I said, "doctors are doing as great as they were in 1955!" you'd edge away. But if teachers are doing as well as they were in 1955, it's like "oh, well! Is it time for raise yet?"
The thing is we're not living in Lake Woebegone. The old metric was you tracked those kids, put them in Reading classes throughout high school, and didn't make them sit for the SAT (like my former system does), make them take Math classes they can't pass, etc.

Now we don't track, vocational programs nationwide have been gutted and community colleges, which were originally targeted at trades and continuing education, have become de facto academic institutions with few or any entrance standards.

As far as "time for a raise" goes I have to ask if you have a real job or just move data around? That sounds snarky but isn't meant to be.

Here's the difference between schools and damn near every other industry, education has to accept every piece of raw material sent to it. No English language skills? You're in. Homeless? You're in. Fractured family with both parents locked up? You're in. Parents never made you go to school so you missed half of every year? You're in. Illegally in the US? You're in. And so on.

Most other industries reject under standard raw materials, they aren't expected to bring them up to usable standard in X days/weeks/months.

Did you only read the part of my post about reading level or just decide to somewhat take it out of context just because?
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