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Old 11-30-2016, 02:08 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,444,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
I wouldn't revolt. But millions who don't have employer-sponsored insurance would revolt. There is a difference between a negotiated benefit and a statutory payroll tax.

A $12/hr employee costs the same to insure as a $25/hr employee. As a percent of payroll, the average family premium is higher than 12%. In California the average family premium is $16,200. The average individual plan is $6,200.

Ignore all other taxes. $6.2/$24k > $6.2/$50k. It's about dollars AND percentages. Many lower income families are offered employer insurance and simply pass because the premium is too large as a percent of income. A $24k/year employee would pay 33% of his after-tax income to fully fund the average individual plan. Assume the employer is sponsoring 70%, which is the current national average. He would pay ~10% of his after-tax pay. The percent decreases as income increases, making the tax regressive. It's why millions didn't have insurance even when it was offered. It's why millions chose the penalty over the ACA even with subsidies.

Everyone wants single payer except when they have to contribute. The Feds have done countless studies. If we suddenly implemented a new payroll tax of 12% on every American, some would see no change. Millions of the lowest earners who currently pay zero would revolt.
The low earners would be subsidized. The tax would have to be progressive. There would be a few uninsured people make 50-100k a year that would be hurt but most in that range already pay out for medical care so the difference for most would be negligible.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:09 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TrapperJohn View Post
For professionals it probably works out pretty good. Do the math for a clerk at Walmart.
Again progressive tax they likely wouldn't pay a dime more in tax.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:11 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Thats because obamacare ruined private plans for young people.

I'm not kidding, it went from $75/mo to $500/mo
If you take the same plans from before and after the rate of change was about the same. The issue was that certain high deductible plans went out the door.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:12 PM
 
1,985 posts, read 1,444,430 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ~HecateWhisperCat~ View Post
You guys realize that the chairman of HHS has nothing to do with legislation? Medicare isn't going to be privatized. Like Social Security it's a great talking point for the right, but it's political suicide to even get serious about it. Last time Ryan tried to bring it up it was so popular that Republicans were canceling town halls to avoid the people coming there yelling at them over it. What will happen is what always happens. It will get discussed seriously. The AARP will get wind of it and mobilize scores of ads. Old people will see the ads and light up the Congressman's phones like Christmas trees. The idea will shelved to a later date which will never happen.
My instinct tell me this is true but politically they have been very wrong this year.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:18 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
“We now face an opportunity — and an obligation — to turn the page on the failed politics of yesterday's health care debates… My plan begins by covering every American. If you already have health insurance, the only thing that will change for you under this plan is the amount of money you will spend on premiums. That will be less. If you are one of the 45 million Americans who don't have health insurance, you will have it after this plan becomes law. No one will be turned away because of a preexisting condition or illness.â€

Total lie. None of that happened. Him lying and saying that all will be covered is not what we are talking about.
Read further down. He spelled it out Obama "public option" and exchange private option. Again Healthcare is a big issue for me I feel that our current system will destroy our economy and middle class before any other threat. I take it very seriously and Obama was a big disappointment for me.

Quote:
Quality, Affordable and Portable Coverage for All
Obama's Plan to Cover Uninsured Americans: Obama will make available a new national health plan to all Americans, including the self-employed and small businesses, to buy affordable health coverage that is similar to the plan available to members of Congress. The Obama plan will have the following features:
Guaranteed eligibility. No American will be turned away from any insurance plan because of illness or pre-existing conditions.
Comprehensive benefits. The benefit package will be similar to that offered through Federal Employees Health Benefits Program (FEHBP), the plan members of Congress have. The plan will cover all essential medical services, including preventive, maternity and mental health care.
Affordable premiums, co-pays and deductibles.
Subsidies. Individuals and families who do not qualify for Medicaid or SCHIP but still need financial assistance will receive an income-related federal subsidy to buy into the new public plan or purchase a private health care plan.
Simplified paperwork and reined in health costs.
Easy enrollment. The new public plan will be simple to enroll in and provide ready access to coverage.
Portability and choice. Participants in the new public plan and the National Health Insurance Exchange (see below) will be able to move from job to job without changing or jeopardizing their health care coverage.
Quality and efficiency. Participating insurance companies in the new public program will be required to report data to ensure that standards for quality, health information technology and administration are being met.
National Health Insurance Exchange: The Obama plan will create a National Health Insurance Exchange to help individuals who wish to purchase a private insurance plan. The Exchange will act as a watchdog group and help reform the private insurance market by creating rules and standards for participating insurance plans to ensure fairness and to make individual coverage more affordable and accessible. Insurers would have to issue every applicant a policy, and charge fair and stable premiums that will not depend upon health status. The Exchange will require that all the plans offered are at least as generous as the new public plan and have the same standards for quality and efficiency. The Exchange would evaluate plans and make the differences among the plans, including cost of services, public.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:21 PM
 
79,907 posts, read 44,021,490 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East of the River View Post
Read further down. He spelled it out Obama "public option" and exchange private option. Again Healthcare is a big issue for me I feel that our current system will destroy our economy and middle class before any other threat. I take it very seriously and Obama was a big disappointment for me.
You do not "buy" a public health plan. Yes, anyone can buy it but anyone can buy a Rolls Royce also.....technically. That is not what we are talking about.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:33 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
You do not "buy" a public health plan. Yes, anyone can buy it but anyone can buy a Rolls Royce also.....technically. That is not what we are talking about.
That's exactly what we are talking about. The idea behind a public option is that the government uses its existing medical resources (medicare) to create a health plan for all people you can simply buy into at cost (or more likely below cost). It's seen as a gateway drug to full on single payer health insurance. The health care industry didn't like the concept because if run correctly the govt plan would almost always be cheaper then their option. More and more people would go for it until eventually the majority had it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public...surance_option
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:43 PM
 
Location: *
13,242 posts, read 4,895,376 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stymie13 View Post
Note: any remaining support I may have had for trump disappeared when he mentioned block grants in debate 2. All credibility disappeared completely with 'mosul'.

Now the anti trump tripe is pushing me to align with conservatives but I am a dinosaur conservative. That means limiting the federal government and letting states sink or swim.

Socially the federal gov should have virtually no involvement in a person's life, liberty, property.
On the bold: this is the undeveloped context from which questions such as the OP can be framed. Yours is an ideological position.

Quote:
"Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness" is a well-known phrase in the United States Declaration of Independence.[1] The phrase gives three examples of the "unalienable rights" which the Declaration says have been given to all human beings by their Creator, and which governments are created to protect. ...
Historically, from its inception, the US government did not protect the rights of all human beings living within its borders. More than half the population lacked the right to even vote for government representatives. The government had to be petitioned to protect the rights of all people.

Privatize? There's no profit in protecting rights.
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:43 PM
 
1,850 posts, read 816,243 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by East of the River View Post
The health care industry didn't like the concept because if run correctly the govt plan would almost always be cheaper then their option.
That's a mis-statement. Government plans are "cheaper" than private plans in the sense that the government can ignore costs. For example, currently, Medicare and Medicaid reimburse far below what private insurers do. They do not do so because they are more efficient or better. They just go "yeah, this is what we're paying you, take it or leave it."
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Old 11-30-2016, 02:49 PM
 
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Reputation: 862
Also on the public option several states have tried to do similar and eventually may get it done first. Here in CT the idea has been floated to allow anyone to buy in the state workers health plan. The idea being that the bigger the pool the cheaper the rates. The first attempt was blocked in 2011 (that was just to extend it to public unions and municipal workers) but I think it will come up again.
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