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She was strong enough to hold her family hostage while she brandished a weapon and threatened suicide.
Sounds like she was the bully.
She didn't display much respect for her family.
Yes, and deservedly so. Any other victim would have gone quietly into that good night without putting on a show for her family.
The family was lucky she didn't take them out first.
What was an 18 year-old doing with access to a hand-gun in the first place?
Now, I have to respectfully disagree with you.
I agree with you when you said, she was the sick one. She was, she most definitely suffered from undiagnosed or untreated mental illness because SUICIDE ITSELF is not normal.
We simply cannot rationalize a suicide mind.
There are some good books explain suicide
I have read them all after my late boyfriend's suicide. All the therapy I received in the past have taught me the same thing,
Suicide is irrational, don't even try to make sense of it. When a suicide took place, nobody is to blame.
This girl was not selfish, or a bully, she was sick, like you first stated. I think people should just leave it at that.
Now, the people who deserve some compassion and space are her families and loved ones. They are entering this endless and very dark "grief journey". I bet ALL OF THEM feel guilty and they shouldn't, I bet ALL OF THEM feel anger, and anger is a normal stage of grief. I bet ALL OF THEM wonder "what if I did this, what if I did that." It is also normal..
but eventually, they will enter the final stage of grief, acceptance.
It will be a long journey.
been there, done that, boyfriend committed suicide while I was on the phone with him.
ps. about your bold, my late boyfriend always threatened suicide when we had an argument. He was an attorney who had a very successful career. I used to think he was just a drama king and never viewed that as a suicide warning sign. Now, through therapy, I realized that he did not want to harm me or bully me, he was sick. threatening suicide is sadly the symptoms of mental illness. My late boyfriend died of terminal mental illness, just like this girl did.
Many people committed suicide don't really want to die, they just want the pain to go away. Her pain was too intense for her to care about anybody. It is not her fault. She was sick, like you said.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 12-01-2016 at 10:44 PM..
I agree with you when you said, she was the sick one. She was, she most definitely suffered from undiagnosed or untreated mental illness because SUICIDE ITSELF is not normal.
We simply cannot rationalize a suicide mind.
There are some good books explain suicide
I have read them all after my late boyfriend's suicide. All the therapy I received in the past have taught me the same thing,
Suicide is irrational, don't even try to make sense of it. When a suicide took place, nobody is to blame.
This girl was not selfish, or a bully, she was sick, like you first stated. I think people should just leave it at that.
Now, the people who deserve some compassion and space are her families and loved ones. They are entering this endless and very dark "grief journey". I bet ALL OF THEM feel guilty and they shouldn't, I bet ALL OF THEM feel anger, and anger is a normal stage of grief. I bet ALL OF THEM wonder "what if I did this, what if I did that." It is also normal..
but eventually, they will enter the final stage of grief, acceptance.
It will be a long journey.
been there, done that, boyfriend committed suicide while I was on the phone with him
Yeah, I know sweetie. Glad you are healing. My own brothers death contributed to an entire state's suicide hotline. ( the state had no hotline before his death) Facebook still sucks ( my opinion.. 75 percent of Facebook is fake accounts)
Yeah, I know sweetie. Glad you are healing. My own brothers death contributed to an entire state hotline. ( we had nothing before this) Facebook still sucks ( my opinion.. 75 percent of it is fake accounts)
I am very sorry for your loss. From a suicide survivor to another, we share some invisible bond.
suicide survivor = people (like me) are those who left behind
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 12-01-2016 at 10:40 PM..
Many school administrators don't want to go up against the bully's parents because they're often bullies themselves. So they try and control the victim. 'Just ignore it' or 'Stop listening and just walk away' and blah blah blah. They put the onus on the victim, which only makes that person feel worse.
Cannot say I disagree. Anything but a confrontation...
It is okay though, blaming is a very normal part of suicide. The first thing we learned from suicide survivor support group is that no one is to blame when somebody CHOSE to take their own life.
When my boyfriend died, his family all blamed me because yeah, we had an argument before his death.
I blamed myself for years, No, it is not my fault, because the one who pulled the trigger was HIM, not me.
This said, I am not saying bulllies should not feel guilty, they defininitely should have felt guilty. But they should feel guilty for BULLYING, NOT her death. Trigger is not the cause.
It is like you are comparing apples to oranges. Rapist is to blame, but suicide is the person's choice. Two completely different things.
Rapist chooses to rape the victim, Yes, they are to blame, People choose to take their own life, they are the one who made that choice to die.
Your boyfriend, and I'm sorry for your loss that you went through that, had a problem with depression. Of course it wasn't your fault. Of course the argument didn't lead to his decision.
Think of bullying as being an emotionally abusive relationship you didn't enter willingly. Think of how beaten down a person can become when, every day, they're told they're worthless pieces of garbage, who won't ever fit in, who won't amount to anything, who will never have what others have, etc. If you don't think that beats a person down to the point where their only relief in ending the internal pain this causes is death, then I don't know what to tell you.
This notion that it was her choice is nothing but garbage. When you're emotionally beaten down, you feel you have no choice.
This is clearly the fault of the people who did this to her every day. They pushed her to do this. I'm not saying others made the best choices for her, because it appears they may not have. The family should have taken away her access to Facebook, but that's just one part of this. School is the other. Some people can't just leave the area and move, have no options for any other schools, and can't home school.
What these bullies do is emotionally beat, over and over, their victim. Of course it's their fault - they chose to do that to destroy another life, and they succeeded when she pulled the trigger.
As for criticizing her for the way she did it, we weren't there and don't have all the facts.
Teens are seldom in their right minds half the time anyway. Their brains aren't even fully formed. They're very vulnerable. If they're being bullied (and I don't mean teased when I use that word), it can lead to something like this.
I cannot state this any more clearly. You wouldn't dare blame the victim if it was physical abuse. Mental and emotional abuse is no different.
Your boyfriend, and I'm sorry for your loss that you went through that, had a problem with depression. Of course it wasn't your fault. Of course the argument didn't lead to his decision.
Think of bullying as being an emotionally abusive relationship you didn't enter willingly. Think of how beaten down a person can become when, every day, they're told they're worthless pieces of garbage, who won't ever fit in, who won't amount to anything, who will never have what others have, etc. If you don't think that beats a person down to the point where their only relief in ending the internal pain this causes is death, then I don't know what to tell you.
This notion that it was her choice is nothing but garbage. When you're emotionally beaten down, you feel you have no choice.
This is clearly the fault of the people who did this to her every day. They pushed her to do this. I'm not saying others made the best choices for her, because it appears they may not have. The family should have taken away her access to Facebook, but that's just one part of this. School is the other. Some people can't just leave the area and move, have no options for any other schools, and can't home school.
What these bullies do is emotionally beat, over and over, their victim. Of course it's their fault - they chose to do that to destroy another life, and they succeeded when she pulled the trigger.
As for criticizing her for the way she did it, we weren't there and don't have all the facts.
Teens are seldom in their right minds half the time anyway. Their brains aren't even fully formed. They're very vulnerable. If they're being bullied (and I don't mean teased when I use that word), it can lead to something like this.
I cannot state this any more clearly. You wouldn't dare blame the victim if it was physical abuse. Mental and emotional abuse is no different.
I think we are talking about two separate issues here.
My late boyfriend suffered from undiagnosed mental illness (key word: undiagnosed) He was an attorney, and always an overachiever. SUICIDE itself is mental illness, period.
Normally people ( normal here means : free from mental illnesses) DO NOT kill themselves even when they are bullied.
I am not making excuses for bullies here, I am saying, they should feel guilty for bullying, but bullying is not the direct CAUSE of her suicide.
trigger is not the cause.
I "triggered" my boyfriend's suicide, I was not the "cause" He died of terminal mental illness, not an argument. This girl died of terminal mental illness.
By the way, my late boyfriend did not die because he had depression. My therapist suggested borderline personality disorder.
Nobody is blaming the victim here. I am only saying there are differences between trigger and cause.
Bullies should definitely feel guilty for BULLYING, but this girl decided to pull the trigger.
In my suicide survivor group, we had a wife who lost her husband to suicide. She believed he killed himself because she cheated on him. She even said her husband became more depressed after the cheating. She was convinced that she caused the suicide. Well, she might be an unfaithful woman, but she did not cause his suicide.
We also had a boy who killed himself. He has been bullied for at least years. His parents blamed the bullies, well, we all did. But through therapy, their parents realized that bullies might have contributed their son's mental illness, he was the one who decided to die. You can certainly take a Stand Against Bullying, but at the same time, teaching the kids proper coping skills. You need to do both.
Lack of coping skill is another symptom of mental illness.
NOT blaming the victims here.
Last edited by lilyflower3191981; 12-02-2016 at 08:57 AM..
Obviously, the parents didn't teach her how to deal with bullies.... I bet they were teaching being passive, without a faith to follow.
2 weeks into high school my daughter laid out an an 11th grader upperclassman chick, that said she was going to kick my daughter ass , just because she was friends with a girl she had an issue with. Sure she got in trouble with the school and now it becomes some city government issue too, but....
Never got messed with again. Most popular girl in school. Most decorated HS athlete. Homecoming & Prom Queen. Class president.
You kick the crap out of those wishing to oppress, intimidate and try to control you. You will always be picked on, until you get you some respect, by handing them their ass.
What about parents teaching their kids not to bully in the first place?
Today's young adults and teenagers have grown up with technology and they have access to it 24/7. Many times they become very bold over technology and text things they would never say directly to someone's face,
BS, anything a kid has said on the net they have said face to face, anyone who has never dealt with such is either lying or sheltered. Kids can get nasty mean at times, but the problem is twofold. We stopped teaching morals, we stopped hardening our children to deal with the reality of life.
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