Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-24-2016, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Maine
3,532 posts, read 2,840,799 times
Reputation: 6820

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
One is preventing an innocent person from being hurt/killed (self defense)

One is killing someone after an innocent person was hurt/killed (revenge)
seeing that convicted killers can and have escaped from prison and killed again, I would say that the DP is societal self defence.


RR
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-24-2016, 06:02 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,235,101 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
Well if it will make you feel better we can let the family and friends of the victim administer the death, That way the Government won't have to do it.


RR
That's not self defense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2016, 06:03 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,235,101 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I am confused, you also posted the following when a poster mentioned Dylann Roof



To me, Putting people in prison for life is, horrible torture. If we're not going to rehabilitate our prisoners, it seems better, from both a moral and a utilitarian point of view to inflict capital punishment. That is just my opinion, and my opinion regarding torture and true punishment might be a little different from yours. (Not saying you are wrong here)

I assume that no one would argue that a policeman in the line of duty should not be able to shoot an armed gunman, or that killing in self-defense should not be allowed. The death penalty, at least when applied to murderers who are deemed incapable of rehabilitation, is merely a form of generalized self-defense.

Retributivists believe that “the criminal deserves to be punished and deserves to be punished in proportion to the gravity of his or her crime, whether or not the victim or anyone else desires it” (Pojman 57). So, under this reasoning, if a person committed a murder, that person’s punishment should be death.
I don't see how my two statements are contradictory.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2016, 06:05 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,235,101 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by roadrat View Post
seeing that convicted killers can and have escaped from prison and killed again, I would say that the DP is societal self defence.


RR
Seeing that convicted killers can and have been released and gone on to live very productive lives beneficial to our society, I would say that the DP is a societal ill that needs be removed from the disciplinary toolbox.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2016, 06:30 AM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
39,044 posts, read 27,462,475 times
Reputation: 15954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
I don't see how my two statements are contradictory.
I am not saying your two statements are contradictory. I was saying capital punishment CAN BE seen as a lesser method of torture/punishment for some folks.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2016, 06:41 AM
 
28,164 posts, read 25,235,101 times
Reputation: 16665
Quote:
Originally Posted by lilyflower3191981 View Post
I am not saying your two statements are contradictory. I was saying capital punishment CAN BE seen as a lesser method of torture/punishment for some folks.
I do think capital punishment is a lesser method of punishment AND torturous which adds to my problems with it. Putting someone to death is really not a punishment because the person being put to death isn't paying for what he/she has done. She's given a free pass to be in that sweet oblivion of death. Paying with years of your life is a more suitable form of punishment and IMO, makes a lot more sense.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-24-2016, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Florida
2,309 posts, read 897,375 times
Reputation: 659
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magritte25 View Post
We go to war for a lot of reasons. If we are actually being attacked, then yes, we must kill to survive. But many of our wars have zero to do with defense. And I did say self defense is in a different category than the death penalty.
Then would you say that detaining someone after the person kidnapping someone falls under revenge punishment or whatever you called the death penalty? If not why not?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2016, 04:35 AM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,026,956 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Maccabee 2A View Post
That's why we have the justice system. Plus such a thing is actually rare.



Actually its not the case. In fact if a person is on death row there more chance of him being let free than those on life without parol. The death row is incentive to find evidence.

Not rare enough, even if it IS rare, what if that RARE situation is you or a loved one? I know it can;t happen to you, right?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2016, 04:38 AM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,026,956 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyNameIsBellaMia View Post
Most innocent persons on death row aren't innocent at all. A few weeks ago I saw a story about a guy wrongly convicted and years later, was set free. He was wrongly convicted only because his lawyer forgot to do something or other. He was NOT an innocent man.


The bleeding hearts who yelp and bellyache about the so-called innocence of death row inmates are overlooking or ignoring the whole story.

You have the heart of a beautiful, wonderful person-in a jar in your desk Way too many innocents are on DR. Your story while true, doesn't change that fact. Good God people
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-25-2016, 04:41 AM
 
Location: Sunshine Coast, QLD
3,674 posts, read 3,026,956 times
Reputation: 5466
Quote:
Originally Posted by Milton Miteybad View Post
It doesn't matter if the death penalty deters other criminals. While some offenders are in fact deterred by the presence of the death penalty, the fact that they are so deterred is not necessarily a compelling reason, in and of itself, to retain the DP as a punishment alternative.

The death penalty is, however, a 100% deterrent to the offender to whom it is applied. (See the preceding testimony of Theodore Bundy for proof.)

Some will say that the state can incapacitate the same offender by life in prison, and in theory, that is true.

However, those who are familiar with history realize full well that governments come in two varieties: 1) those that have fallen, and 2) those that will.

Every government instituted by mortal men either has ended, or will end, at some point. There has never been any exception to this ironclad law of societal evolution, nor will there ever be.

When governments fall, they often lose the ability to imprison or otherwise restrain their felon population, whose members are then free to roam the countryside, visiting their sick depredations on innocent members of society the fallen government was originally instituted to protect.

That is why government, the creation, instrumentality and temporal subset of this larger concept we call "society," must have the option to do away with felons who have demonstrated, by their sociopathic behavior, that they pose an unacceptable risk to society in that they may outlive the government charged with the responsibility of restraining them.

While we might agree that the absolute number of felons for whom the death penalty should be reserved is far smaller than the number who actually receive such sentences, the requirements of a civil society dictate that government should nonetheless have such a penalty as an option.

Because someday, the government, as currently constituted, will be gone, and with it, its ability to imprison its felons. But society (in one form or another) will still exist, and its members at that time will deserve protection from sociopaths no less than those who are its members today.



How can the DP be a deterrent? No criminal ever thinks they will get caught, also DP states in america still have very high violent crime rates, plus it's never been fairly applied
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:04 AM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top