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I don't need a cookie or a hanky. I'm liberal, but I'm not a Democrat.
Why must so many conservatives play team sports with our very lives and government?
It's ridiculous. See these people for what they are. Do you think I thought that Bill Clinton (I never voted for him, btw) was behaving appropriately? Nope.
Do I know that Hillary had official offices? Sure, but she also wasn't trying to sell tacky bracelets to foreign dignitaries or build hotels by trading political favors so she could boost the Clinton family net worth.
You can support Trump all you like, but until his supporters start asking real questions about his motives, I will be concerned about this very much.
Hold them all accountable. You can do that and still want him in the White House because partisan politics, I suppose.
Just because you can't afford Ivanka's bracelets doesn't make them tacky.
And lest you forget (or more likely, never knew), Hillary was trying to sell insurance to every American, by force. That's much, much, much worse than anything Ivanka might do.
You simply can NOT intelligently defend Hillary, her office in the West Wing, and her job of raping every American, then turn around and slam Ivanka. Well, you can...but we will, as always, just laugh at you.
You cannot "social calendar" your way into being so close to the president while running other businesses. It's a clear conflict of interest.
So, while Ivanka is sipping champagne at state functions or having a mimosa at a "ladies" brunch, she'll be hawking her bracelets and her clothing line and anything else she can hustle and the wives and leaders of other countries will feel like they can get more from Trump if they buy Ivanka's merchandise.
Do you see how this is inappropriate? We'll have an administration that can be bought and sold with consumer goods.
This is why we have laws against this type of thing.
You can like Trump and Ivanka all you want, but until they move their factories all back to the US and start hiring the out-of-work factory workers and paying them a livable wage, all that talk about bringing jobs back was a con job, and all his supporters fell for it.
that is a completely separate issue from the one being discussed here. you are now talking about potential Ivanka Conflicts not TheDonald conflicts.
as for your point of "this is why we have laws against this sort of thing" well.... according to US CODE we have laws that specifically give the POTUS immunity from conflict of interest laws.
so no. we don't.... have laws against this sort of thing.
PS, im not sure I "like" Ivanka. I think she is really a liberal. "like" meaning agree politically. I have no clue about her as for personal like or dislike.
AS for TheDonald, I am cautiously optimistic. Where he does the things I think are right for America, I will wish him well and hope he succeeds. Where I think he is going in the wrong direction, I will not wish him well, and hope and pray he fails.
There are several things that are worth discussing. in fact Ivanka's personal business dealings might be such an issue to discuss... at the point we find out that she is involved in the administration, and also running her company. WE don't know that at this point.
When I see baseless attacks, im going to be here pointing out the nonsense. in this particular case, I was addressing the fact that Ivanka is not both in the WH and running TheDonalds business. I also addressed the fact that it is not unusual for someone other than a wife to assume the duties of FLOTUS.
Then whiplash, you bring up the non sequitur of her business dealings.
I don't get what the problem is? Ivanka and the husband will be a part of the White House team, and Melania will be in New York for awhile. Even when Melania moves to Washington, she historically has had nothing to do with the Donald's business.
If at some point, she decides to take on a cause that requires office space, I'm guessing there are a few other offices in the building.
Not a problem at all unless you call breaking the constitutional law and ethic rules a 'problem.'
Trump has a lot of people on both sides of the aisle who detest him. He does not have a mandate no matter how much he lies about it. He is going to push the envelope regarding laws and the Constitution too far and will be treading dangerously close to impeachment. You would think this guy would bend over backwards to not appear to be doing anything illegal, but he has always pretty much ignored the law.
Just imagine Obama attempting to do anything close to any of this. Fact--the same people defending Trump's unethical and illegal actions would have been jumping all over him.
I don't need a cookie or a hanky. I'm liberal, but I'm not a Democrat.
Why must so many conservatives play team sports with our very lives and government?
It's ridiculous. See these people for what they are. Do you think I thought that Bill Clinton (I never voted for him, btw) was behaving appropriately? Nope.
Do I know that Hillary had official offices? Sure, but she also wasn't trying to sell tacky bracelets to foreign dignitaries or build hotels by trading political favors so she could boost the Clinton family net worth.
You can support Trump all you like, but until his supporters start asking real questions about his motives, I will be concerned about this very much.
Hold them all accountable. You can do that and still want him in the White House because partisan politics, I suppose.
oh, you don't need a hanky. but do you not see the hyperbolic hystirics in this:
Why must so many conservatives play team sports with our very lives
That is a copy/paste from your statement above. We are playing team sports with your life?
and your argument to support the notion is that Ivanka is selling taky bracelets to foreign dignitaries and building hotels by trading political favors?
This is your argument? LOL. I mean seriously. First of all that has not happened. second really selling tacky bracelets? like some 12 year old? That's going to derail the republic and get you killed? I mean that's what you said was proof of "playing" with your "life".
As for motive, TheDonald has been really clear about his motives. shoot, he said as much in the mid-90s to Oprah of all people. He has stated it over and over.
so how about you provide ONE policy position Mr. Trump has articulated that dangerously plays with your life?
I apologize. I got irritated. people making baseless accusations that are demeaning bother me.
ive been quite polite in this thread with this exchange being the exception.
but it does speak to the point. you cant just keep changing the target. you cant just keep coming up with some new thing that doesn't fit the context of the discussion.
Ivanka having her own businesses has no bearing at all on her being in the White House and being involved in running her fathers companies.
That's a very different issue.
Apology accepted.
We're in all new territory here. No president has ever had the extensive business dealings that Trump and his family empire have. No president has ever involved his children in his administration to the extent it appears that Ivanka and her brothers may be involved. If Ivanka is given as large a role in Trump's administration that Hillary had in Bill's administration, then her business dealings should be subject to scrutiny.
Trump doesn't play by the rules and that's one reason so many people voted for him. But some rules are good and important to have. The president and anyone making policy on behalf of the president needs to have the interests of the United States as his or her only priority. It's not fair to the American people to have to wonder if Trump is being loyal to the U.S. or to his business interests. The same is true of Ivanka if she's going to have even an informal advisory role to Trump.
I don't think that all Trump supporters are mouth-breathing bigots. But I really, really want to see them hold Trump to the same standards that they held Obama, or Hillary during the election. Demand integrity and clear-dealing from him and protest if you don't see it. Don't blindly follow him wherever he wants to lead you.
BTW, you'll never see me speak ill of Melania. I actually feel kind of sorry for her and Barron. From what we've seen so far, neither appear comfortable or happy about their roles in Trump's presidency.
If Ivanka was working for a large corporation that she did not own and she announced that she'd be stepping down to help carry some of the weight with the First Lady's social calendar while her stepmom was in New York taking care of her younger brother, this would be of ZERO concern.
If Jared Kushner was not involved at all, but running his businesses while his wife helped out? Not an issue at all.
As long as Ivanka wasn't being paid and she was volunteering and she wasn't running a company while fulfilling this social obligation, I would have zero issue with it. ZERO.
But, that is NOT what is happening.
We have laws regarding nepotism for a reason.
please provide evidence that Ivanka is being paid.
please provide evidence that she is running some company while volunteering.
Please explain how this is worse than JFK nominating his brother as Atty Gen.... because his father demanded he do so....
We're in all new territory here. No president has ever had the extensive business dealings that Trump and his family empire have. No president has ever involved his children in his administration to the extent it appears that Ivanka and her brothers may be involved. If Ivanka is given as large a role in Trump's administration that Hillary had in Bill's administration, then her business dealings should be subject to scrutiny.
Trump doesn't play by the rules and that's one reason so many people voted for him. But some rules are good and important to have. The president and anyone making policy on behalf of the president needs to have the interests of the United States as his or her only priority. It's not fair to the American people to have to wonder if Trump is being loyal to the U.S. or to his business interests. The same is true of Ivanka if she's going to have even an informal advisory role to Trump.
I don't think that all Trump supporters are mouth-breathing bigots. But I really, really want to see them hold Trump to the same standards that they held Obama, or Hillary during the election. Demand integrity and clear-dealing from him and protest if you don't see it. Don't blindly follow him wherever he wants to lead you.
BTW, you'll never see me speak ill of Melania. I actually feel kind of sorry for her and Barron. From what we've seen so far, neither appear comfortable or happy about their roles in Trump's presidency.
ok so we can do this with respect. (I really mean that)
first I stated the day after the election that I don't wish him success. I wish him success in those things that are good for the country and failure with the things I believe bad for the country.
as for as your statements, lets go thru them.
You said No president has ever had the extensive business dealings that Mr. Trump has. That isn't exactly true. From George Washington to John F. Kennedy we have had a pretty fair number of presidents with very extensive business dealings. Not all of them have put their money in blind trusts. Most recently that has been the case. But not all.
Second you said Mr. Trump doesn't play by the rules. You indicate some of those rules are important. it seems you are talking bout conflict of interest. If my assumption is wrong, please correct me?
Here is the Law from the US CODE Title 18 section 208 exempt the President and VP from all conflict of interest laws, because such power presents a conflict on every single action they take.
so legally speaking you aren't correct.
Ivanka would not be exempt from CoI laws if she is able to take an actual position. FLOTUS is not a position. Advisor is not a position. Not unless it is a paid position within the Executive Branch.
We're in all new territory here. No president has ever had the extensive business dealings that Trump and his family empire have. No president has ever involved his children in his administration to the extent it appears that Ivanka and her brothers may be involved. If Ivanka is given as large a role in Trump's administration that Hillary had in Bill's administration, then her business dealings should be subject to scrutiny.
.
You must be VERY young. Or perhaps you went to a public school.
ALL our presidents have had extensive business dealings. That's how they got rich enough to run for public office.
I am not a Trump fan and have absolutely no problem with this. I think its great that we are finally at a point first families can assume their chosen roles instead of trying to fit a preconstructed model. I also would not be opposed to a first family simply hiring a supercharged social secretary to play the first lady role.
My one gripe with Trumps family is that he and the kids need to maintain a clearer separation in terms of Trump the business/Trump family/Trump administration. The Clinton Foundation bit Hillary in the ass and if he's not careful his business dealings could do the same for him.
The issue isn't that a family member is taking on the role, in general... the issue is that this is a person who was supposed to be separated from the presidency due to her role in the family businesses. If she is going to be separated from the family businesses... oh, what am I saying - of course she won't be. She'll be sitting in a branch of trump Inc., doing the family business.
"The Clinton Foundation bit Hillary in the ass and if he's not careful his business dealings could do the same for him" Sorry... he is pretty much by definition "not careful", and it will bite him in the ass.
More leftist heads exploding....I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So glad you're happy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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