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This was the Sauna and none of the children or teens were supposed to be in there. It's a separate area of the locker room.
Link?
And what if some adult females don't want a biological male in the sauna with them ? Tough sh@t on their rights? Every female member has to be robbed of their rights to accommodate one transgendered person ?
I am saying that in the human species females are the gender that has the equipment to get pregnant and carry babies . Males are the ones that deliver the sperm . Gender is not a choice , it is a biological reproductive function .
When you have evidence to the contrary please share it . The relabeling of gender by some PC psychologists is of no concern to people who live in reality.Men do not get pregnant , women do not impregnate men . It really is that simple once you pull back the PC curtain that tries to confuse things and look behind it .
I'm not arguing that the transgendered don't have a physiological basis for their gender confusion , I presume that they do. I am simply stating that having chemicals in the brain convincing a male that he is actually a female does not make him capable of getting pregnant and nursing a baby. Again, if you have evidence to dispute this, please provide it . Nothing about psychologists explaining the cause of gender confusion alters the actual reproductive capabilities , and therefore gender , of a person .
So the only thing that defies a woman in your mind, is that she can get pregnant. Wow. So what you're saying is that your Mother, and your daughter if you have one is nothing but a walking, talking, feeling, thinking vagina with breasts. I'm sure they'd love to know that that is what you truly think of them.
That, by the way, is physical sex. Nothing to do with internal gender. This is not a PC vs. non-PC thing, that has f--- all to do with political correctness. Damn I hate repeating myself, but here we go again....this is not a liberal vs. conservative issue, this has nothing whatsoever to do with political correctness. I am NOT a man, no matter how badly you want me to be, or no matter how often you say so. YOU DO NOT DEFINE ME. You continuously say that you don't want to harass those of us who are trans, but yet you continuously, on purpose misgender me, which is unspeakably rude.
I'm not confused, you don't know me, you don't know a damn thing about me.
You want proof that gender isn't biological, and has nothing whatsoever to do with your genitalia, answer my question, it's right there.
You want more?
Here:
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What is the difference between sex and gender?
Sex = male and female Gender = masculine and feminine
So in essence: Sex refers to biological differences; chromosomes, hormonal profiles, internal and external sex organs. Gender describes the characteristics that a society or culture delineates as masculine or feminine.
So while your sex as male or female is a biological fact that is the same in any culture, what that sex means in terms of your gender role as a 'man' or a 'woman' in society can be quite different cross culturally. These 'gender roles' have an impact on the health of the individual.
That isn't redefining sex as gender. It's stating that there is a distinction between the two.
Gender is the natural manifestation of the actual biological sex - a direct connection. Terms like "gender identification" or "internal gender" are made up nonsense with about as much validity as unicorn dreams.
How about if HE doesn't like it, HE can find another place?
My 10 y.o. is on a swim team which practices at a local university-supported facility. (They rent lanes in the pool, and without such rentals the facility would not be continuing operations.) The day she tells me some guy is in the locker room is the day I enter that locker room, drag HIS @ss out and and wring HIS neck in the lobby. In front of everyone, without hesitation or a moment's regret. I'll deal with the consequences of protecting my daughter.
Nope, the law does not require that. Sorry.
Your 10 y/o does not have a right to be in that building like this trans woman or any trans woman who is a student does. Your 10 y/o is using a privilege granted to her by the university, who presumably owns and operates the pool/locker room. The university can end that privilege whenever it likes, but it cannot violate the law without repercussions.
Your daughter does not need to be protected from a trans woman. You macho "protect my kids from a non-threat" men need to cool it. We get it. You're manly men. Congrats.
BTW your daughter's going to do real awesome with a dad who's in prison for aggravated assault/possibly attempted murder.
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Originally Posted by wallflash
That you find it wrong for six yr old kids with vaginas to be in a female locker room but see nothing wrong with a biological male being nude in a female locker room says about all that needs to be said about the liberal mindset .
It took about 40 seconds to find that article, which , as I said, was not one of the ones I was referring to, one of which involved a YMCA in the northeast , if I remember correctly .
I don't find it wrong for 6 year olds to be in locker rooms, just a privilege in this case that IMO is unnecessary. Again - if parents don't like it in these scenarios, find another facility to use. Swim teams for little kids are lucky when universities and colleges allow them to use their own facilities. They don't have to do that, and if it comes down to kicking out a trans person against the law (in WA as stated in the article, not the Northeast) or kicking out the swim teams they graciously let use their facilities, I know what the better decision is.
Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 01-06-2017 at 03:20 PM..
As a 64 year old curmudgeon, I can admit that the whole "trans" topic kinda creeps me out. However, I have seen enough and read enough to know that most of these people are in real pain, pain that we might not be able to understand. We are always learning new things about the human psyche. Forget the 19th century, just 25 years ago it was an accepted practice to mock "queers" openly. Now, gay marriage is the law of the land in most places. It is a challenge to our "normalcy bias" to have to make accommodations for trans people, just as it was and is a challenge for many to accept gays and lesbians. I always try to think about these things from the standpoint of "what if it was my kid"? That way we can bring a little more compassion to the conversation and realize that these are just people trying to live THEIR lives as best they can.
Just Mike I value your opinion here. The problem is, there is more than one kid that needs that treatment. we are talking about 8 year old Cub Scouts. They all deserve a "what would I do if that was my child" approach.
I have to question the parents of this kid. Why didn't they explore this situation put their cards on the table with the Cub Scout leaders before they exposed their child to the potential rejection?
In my humble opinion this is just another attack on BSA. They are being picked on by activists doing their best to make BSA be a Progressive organization. This isn't about some poor Trans-Kid. this is about PROG Activists doing their best to destroy an organization they have decided they don't like.
I honestly think that if the boys in this troop were polled (prior to any influence at all by their parents and their opinions), told that there is a transgender boy who would like to join the troop - that means he was born a girl but was born in the wrong body - he dresses like a boy, acts like a boy, has a boy name, and wants to be a Boy Scout, do you guys care?, most would not care and accept this child, especially once they see him and see that he looks just like a boy and acts like a boy. Trans kids before puberty can and often do fool anyone who doesn't actually know. People act like this 8 year old is a full grown woman, wearing makeup and a short dress, trying to join Boy Scouts while complaining about the outdoors. It again comes down to a lack of understanding about transgender people.
It's the adults who are creating issues here. Children in these situations often act more mature and accepting than adults.
So the only thing that defies a woman in your mind, is that she can get pregnant. Wow. So what you're saying is that your Mother, and your daughter if you have one is nothing but a walking, talking, feeling, thinking vagina with breasts. I'm sure they'd love to know that that is what you truly think of them.
Grow up and learn to have disagreements without childish personal remarks. While I fully expected this type of response, it is still aggravating to try and have a discussion with someone who responds this childishly .
To correct the false attitudes you feel compelled to attribute to me in a fit of anger, no, there is more to a woman than her vagina. But a vagina is a core part of being a woman. An engine does not define a car, a BMW is more than just 4 wheels, an engine, and a transmission. But a contraption that does not have these components is not a car, no matter who chooses to call it such . Women are females, not males. And females have vaginas and breasts intended to nurse children. So while a woman is not just a walking vagina and breasts , having these body parts , whether functioning properly or not, or used for reproductive purposes or not , is an essential part of being a woman. Same would apply to men , although I do know some men who ARE just walking pricks.
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That, by the way, is physical sex. Nothing to do with internal gender. This is not a PC vs. non-PC thing, that has f--- all to do with political correctness. Damn I hate repeating myself, but here we go again....this is not a liberal vs. conservative issue, this has nothing whatsoever to do with political correctness. I am NOT a man, no matter how badly you want me to be, or no matter how often you say so. YOU DO NOT DEFINE ME. You continuously say that you don't want to harass those of us who are trans, but yet you continuously, on purpose misgender me, which is unspeakably rude.
It most certainly is a PC liberal thing. It is a redefinition of what a man or woman is to accommodate a particular minority segment of society's personal feelings. I understand the attempt , but understanding the desire to not be labeled abnormal does not alter reality.
And I really dont care how much you repeat yourself. Your word is not the final say. If you dont like participating in these discussions the solution is simple. Dont.
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I'm not confused, you don't know me, you don't know a damn thing about me.
Dont pretend I said I did. I made no such claim. Quit inventing false things to rail against. Thats two so far. Having to invent stuff to attack people with is a sign of a weak argument.
Do better.
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You want proof that gender isn't biological, and has nothing whatsoever to do with your genitalia, answer my question, it's right there.
That isn't redefining sex as gender. It's stating that there is a distinction between the two.
Do you and did you accept the medical professionals that classify or classified transgender as a mental illness, as some still do? Or is it only the ones that say what you want that you quote? Some top psychiatrists still consider transgender as a mental disorder that should be treated rather than accepted as normal. Why are they wrong and the ones who conform to the PC view right?
I differentiated the point by stating that the issue isnt what term people use, but rather how they act in society based on their biology. Nobody cares if a person feels like a woman and calls themself a woman as long as they dont invade the womens dressing rooms and RRs with their male parts. I could care less if the kid next door thought he was a girl, and wore a dress and makeup. But he wasnt spending the night at my house in the same bedroom with my daughter and her female friends on a sleepover. Theres the diff. Call yourself what you will. But it is moronic for society to have to pretend that the person with a penis is actually a woman.
Last edited by wallflash; 01-06-2017 at 04:49 PM..
Since I have taken the time to answer questions put to me, and a couple of points I have made have been ignored, I would like to focus on them and get an actual answer to them. Those of you from the pro trans side please answer me these questions.
In my line of work certain projects have to set aside a certain percentage of work for minority contractors, maybe 25 or 40% of the total. We also have to make attempts to use minority contractors if any bid , even if the minority percentage is met. All things being equal a minority contractor bidding work at the same price as a non minority gets privileged status. Minority meaning non white males. All women owned and non white owned businesses are considered minority businesses.
So, with that being said, would a transgendered woman be considered a minority owned business ?
If your answer is yes, then the next question would be , would a Caucasian who thought he was a black man be considered a minority owned business because he identifies as black ? Should he be granted minority owned status by the government ( who is the party that comes up with these regulations ) on the basis of his mindset rather than his biological reality?
On a related note, obesity is now considered a disability under the ADA . Would a person with a body image disorder that caused them to see themselves as fat when they are in fact unhealthily skinny qualify that person for disability as an obese person? Why not, if we are saying that ones perception of ones self is their actual reality?
Last edited by wallflash; 01-06-2017 at 05:27 PM..
Your 10 y/o does not have a right to be in that building like this trans woman or any trans woman who is a student does. Your 10 y/o is using a privilege granted to her by the university, who presumably owns and operates the pool/locker room. The university can end that privilege whenever it likes, but it cannot violate the law without repercussions.
My daughter is a paying customer using the facility at a direct financial cost, not through the generosity of the school, and is supporting the ongoing operation of the facility. There is no largess or privilege involved here.
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Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
Your daughter does not need to be protected from a trans woman. You macho "protect my kids from a non-threat" men need to cool it. We get it. You're manly men. Congrats.
The problem we're going to have in trying to continue this conversation is that we cannot agree on terms. This is the same as me, a non-believer, trying to discuss the nature of "God" with a Christian. The belief on my part is that no such thing exists. The presupposition on the other side is not only God real, but humanity is able to discern his wishes and wants based on the writings of ancient people despite no direct communication with this being. It's a dead end.
Likewise, I assert there is no such thing as a "transwoman". It's a null term, an invented term describing a non-existent being. You believe otherwise. We have no common starting ground and widely divergent end points. Same dead end. The difference between this and my God example above, is that there's a bunch of these creatures, guys running around in wigs and dresses pretending to be women and demanding that they be accepted, even celebrated as such. And there are feeble-minded supporters waving their banner as well, even to the point of inducing the madness into their own children. I'm not going to run into any mythical gods or unicorns, but I was unfortunate enough to encounter a tranny in the workplace. And the possibility, however low, is that one could appear in the locker room with my child. Or that the insanity and delusion surrounding them will be pushed by the PC crowd to the point where schools are actively teaching that the delusions are real and must be accepted, with non-believers being labeled as hateful and bigoted. Yes, unlike gnomes, leprechauns, or minotaurs, these creatures do exist.
We do not have a common starting point, no common terminology, and no common end point.
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Originally Posted by JerseyGirl415
I don't find it wrong for 6 year olds to be in locker rooms, just a privilege in this case that IMO is unnecessary. Again - if parents don't like it in these scenarios, find another facility to use. Swim teams for little kids are lucky when universities and colleges allow them to use their own facilities. They don't have to do that, and if it comes down to kicking out a trans person against the law (in WA as stated in the article, not the Northeast) or kicking out the swim teams they graciously let use their facilities, I know what the better decision is.
There's nothing wrong with a 6 y.o. in the appropriate locker room. There is something very wrong with a biological man in the girls' locker room, no matter what demons are dancing in his head. No, swim teams are not lucky. They are athletic business enterprises who invest parents' dollars in obtaining the best available venues at which to practice. The venues, businesses in themselves, obtain paying customers. There is no "allowing" or graciousness involved.
So your better decision is to allow the freaks to run rampant, lose paying customers, and decrease the opportunities for students to have quality, financially-viable facilities rather than get Cinderfella some help in solving his psychological problems?
My daughter is a paying customer using the facility at a direct financial cost, not through the generosity of the school, and is supporting the ongoing operation of the facility. There is no largess or privilege involved here.
Likewise, I assert there is no such thing as a "transwoman". It's a null term, an invented term describing a non-existent being. You believe otherwise. We have no common starting ground and widely divergent end points. Same dead end. The difference between this and my God example above, is that there's a bunch of these creatures, guys running around in wigs and dresses pretending to be women and demanding that they be accepted, even celebrated as such. And there are feeble-minded supporters waving their banner as well, even to the point of inducing the madness into their own children. I'm not going to run into any mythical gods or unicorns, but I was unfortunate enough to encounter a tranny in the workplace. And the possibility, however low, is that one could appear in the locker room with my child. Or that the insanity and delusion surrounding them will be pushed by the PC crowd to the point where schools are actively teaching that the delusions are real and must be accepted, with non-believers being labeled as hateful and bigoted. Yes, unlike gnomes, leprechauns, or minotaurs, these creatures do exist.
We do not have a common starting point, no common terminology, and no common end point.
There's nothing wrong with a 6 y.o. in the appropriate locker room. There is something very wrong with a biological man in the girls' locker room, no matter what demons are dancing in his head. No, swim teams are not lucky. They are athletic business enterprises who invest parents' dollars in obtaining the best available venues at which to practice. The venues, businesses in themselves, obtain paying customers. There is no "allowing" or graciousness involved.
So your better decision is to allow the freaks to run rampant, lose paying customers, and decrease the opportunities for students to have quality, financially-viable facilities rather than get Cinderfella some help in solving his psychological problems?
But then it's all about feelings, right?
1. Your daughter is a paying customer because the school lets her be. The school does not need your money; although they benefit from it. They don't have to let outsiders use their facilities, whether they pay or not. The college student is also a paying customer, and gyms are usually open free to all students. It is the students' gym, not your daughter's. If parents of the paying swim team start complaining about the types of college students using the locker room, the school will not kick out their own students, but the swim team. They probably just wouldn't invite them back the next year. The colleges are especially likely to do this instead of pander to you if the law requires they allow trans people to use the locker rooms and bathrooms of their choice.
If you try to tell a college that lets your kid use their pool and locker room that you don't want trans students in the bathrooms and locker rooms, you aren't going to win. You just aren't, especially if there is a law in place like in WA in the story posted. Colleges tend to be liberal and really ensure that minority students are treated well and taken care of because of the type of discrimination and ignorance that people like you display. They won't tell a trans student he or she can't use whatever locker room they want so your little 10 year old can keep using their facilities. They just won't. You will be told to go somewhere else.
2. Medicine and science disagree that there is no such thing as a transwoman or a transgender person at all. They are taken seriously and given hormone treatments and surgery. It doesn't really matter what some individuals think. You don't have to like it or understand it... but trans people exist. Always have, always will.
You have nothing to back up that they don't exist other than the fact that you don't want them to and you don't like them. Unlike doctors and therapists who deal with trans people, study them, and try to understand them... well, you haven't done any of that. Nobody is "pretending to be a woman." Yet again you lack a basic understanding. Many trans people also don't run around with wigs, but grow their hair - or keep it shorter. There are women with short hair. Trans women also probably aren't any more likely to wear a dress than the average woman is. This shows your true feelings on women, actually - we all have long hair and wear dresses. Uh, no thanks. I don't want your misguided stereotypical opinions on us.
They are not more likely to be molesters than any other group, and AFAIK no trans person has molested someone else in the bathroom or dressing room since laws were recently introduced or companies started policies allowing trans people to use their restrooms of choice. You are straight making things up and afraid of things that don't exist. Maybe if you knew a trans person or two, talked to them and really tried to understand and sympathize, you wouldn't make such ridiculous and insulting claims.
3. Your continued use of the word "freak" says all I need to know.
4. Does a six year old belong in a gym locker room at a college? Um, not really, no. At least not unsupervised, and they definitely don't have any more of a right to be there than the students, whether you think so or not. If people are letting their 6 year olds into gym locker rooms unsupervised, that's a whole other issue - and the rare chance that a trans person might be in there is far, far less of a possible threat to your child than any other woman who could be in there. Women can be molesters and abusers, too.
Last edited by JerseyGirl415; 01-06-2017 at 09:05 PM..
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