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Old 01-04-2017, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Eastern UP of Michigan
1,204 posts, read 872,859 times
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my brother earned a good living drilling gas wells for Range Resource(?). They simply drilled into coal veins/pockets etc and sucked the gas out, sent it through a scrubber and on its way to the east coast and new England,


Probably more to it that I mentioned.


They mostly made these wells in played out zones that traditional means were not financially realistic. Seems like a pretty good option for supply with less of the negatives from direct mining.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Eastern UP of Michigan
1,204 posts, read 872,859 times
Reputation: 1292
Quote:
Originally Posted by phetaroi View Post
Or natural gas.
Or hydropower.
Or biomass.
Or geothermal.
Or solar.
Or wind.
Or petroleum.

What if there were no more coal available? Would mankind simply give up and die?
Where we live--approx. 50% of our electric comes from a 120 year old hydro plant. Our cost is below the state and national average for electricity.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:20 PM
 
Location: Barrington
63,919 posts, read 46,738,058 times
Reputation: 20674
Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
We don’t

Coal does not come back with natural gas prices so low.

There are also studies showing solar will be less costly than coal soon.
Employment in the mines peaked in the 1920's. It's beyond time to move on.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:31 PM
 
7,214 posts, read 9,394,916 times
Reputation: 7803
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Employment in the mines peaked in the 1920's. It's beyond time to move on.
Still, it's sad so many voted on an empty promise that everyone knows won't be kept.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:35 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tom1944 View Post
Coal does not come back with natural gas prices so low.
The same people saying this were the same people saying domestic production of oil would not have and affect on prices.

There is many reasons for the decline of coal such as the potential for CO2 that could make operating those plants very expensive in the future. Obama's "clean Power Plan" is currently in the courts and in all likelihood will be one of the first of many things Trump will undo with nothing more than his pen.


BTU for BTU gas has been about double the cost of coal since 2008 when the boom began. Natural gas plants can be more efficient but that tech is coming to coal plants and they will lose that edge too.





Quote:
There are also studies showing solar will be less costly than coal soon
.

Because of the capacity and storage issue modern wind and solar production will be just blips on the timeline of energy history. You can stack coal to the moon next to the coal plant. Where it's 0 degrees out in the Northeast, no wind, cloudy, utilities are hitting peak demand at 7AM and it will be like that for the next two weeks how are you going to meet that demand with solar and wind? You can't, at least not without astronomical expense.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:40 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Employment in the mines peaked in the 1920's. It's beyond time to move on.
This is not something particular to the coal industry. Production per employee is always increasing.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:43 PM
 
51,653 posts, read 25,819,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thecoalman View Post
....
Because of the capacity and storage issue modern wind and solar production will be just blips on the timeline of energy history.
This may be wishful thinking.

There are a number of countries that are working toward eliminating fossil fuel usage with their borders, investing in solar, wind, energy storage, smart grids...

Sweden ...
Costa Rica. ...
Nicaragua.
Scotland. ...
Germany. ...
Uruguay. ...
Denmark. ...

https://www.climaterealityproject.or...newable-energy

New technology and economies of scale are bringing the cost down.

Solar roadways may be on the horizon.

Home - SolarRoadways

We have friends in Santa Cruz, CA that installed solar panels on their roof about a decade ago and have been putting electricity back into the grid.
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Old 01-04-2017, 04:49 PM
 
41,813 posts, read 51,051,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Sweden ...
Costa Rica. ...
Nicaragua.
Scotland. ...
Germany. ...
Uruguay. ...
Denmark. ...
I'm not familiar with the others but do you know what the cost of electric in Germany and Denmark is? It's about 35 to 40 cents per kWh. There is one tax Germany has on electric specifically for renewable that is more than the lowest retail rates in the US.

Sure it can be done but bend over if you want to do that.


Quote:
We have friends in Santa Cruz, CA that installed solar panels on their roof about a decade ago and have been putting electricity back into the grid.
30% of the cost was paid for by federal tax dollars and undoubtedly CA has all kinds of tax rebates and incentives.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:05 PM
 
32,516 posts, read 37,177,253 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EDnurse View Post

I live in Arizona. I love it's beauty. I don't want our air looking like China's. I don't want coal in Arizona.

So, mine your coal, breathe it and eat it...in your area. We don't have to buy it.
There IS coal in Arizona. It's mined and used to power the Navajo Generating Station. You could be getting your electricity from coal.
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Old 01-04-2017, 05:12 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 1,552,009 times
Reputation: 3608
We don't. Coal is on its way out; it's a destructive, 19th-century source of energy. Sorry, but an increasing number of Americans have had it with King Coal blowing off the tops of mountains. Those mountains don't belong just to Kentucky or West Virgina; they belong to all Americans. And some Americans actually love their country--you know, the actual, physical beauty of their country. They've kind of had it with the slashing-and-burning of their nation. It's time for people in coal country to be given the opportunity for education that will help them to live a life of dignity, with hope for their children's future. Something Obama wanted to do, but snakes like Mitch McConnell prevented from happening. People have no idea about the horrors endured by coal miners and their families, some of whom are literally afraid for their lives if they protest the brutality of King Coal. Get a clue.
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