Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
No, I don't think you realize that we disagree. There is absolutely no need for feminism any longer, it's stupid and pointless, even if you take out all the whacked out weirdos who have pushed it to a whole other level.
And if women as a group do not guard their fought for rights (remember we did not have them as a default as free men did) there is a chance we will loose them. Feminism noticeably began around the 1800's, it wasn't till the 1970's that women gained some rights we take for granted 1978 work while preg. 1977 report sexual harassment, 1974 get a credit card, in the 1980;s women weren't covered under maternity leave, in 1990 women couldn't serve in combat roles....etc.
1970's may see like a long time to you but for some of us it was like yesterday, we lived it. Even today there are issues that affect women, poverty, violence, reproductive rights, breast feeding, child care, sex trafficking. Women are still underrepresented in politics, stem fields, judicial positions. Im sure people thought there was absolutely no longer any need for feminism in the 1800's when women got property rights and in 1910 when they got the right to vote, in 1965 when the pill became legal for married women, in 1974 when they were allowed their own credit. Freedom is not something one can let sit idle.
Life experiences.
Fact that women were not hired into positions of traditionally male jobs. This can be found by researching the history of employment practices and policy and law suits.
Just the fact that Help Wanted columns in the newspaper were divided into "Male" and "Female" sections should tell them that. It was that way when I first started working, and I am not yet 60.
I remember the first time I saw a woman cop or a woman mailman. Women doctors were rare.
When I entered the full-time workforce (as a secretary, a "woman's job") in 1979 in the construction industry, I was typing about the necessity of building a locker room for the female police officers in the transportation agency for which I worked because up till then, there wasn't one. I remember when our first female engineer was hired, in maybe 1980. Again, not all that long ago. And I was in the public sector, which was ahead of private in the hiring of women in equal positions.
Last edited by Mightyqueen801; 01-17-2017 at 11:16 AM..
Sorry for not replying sooner, had some things to get done.
Anyway, obviously I can't respond to every post and I doubt anything I will say will change any minds but I feel it best to respond generally based on some replies I have read.
.....
I hope the OP won't mind, but he posted in another topic this video I would recommend watching:
Of course many say "Just read the dictionary definition of feminism" I have, and it hardly means much. When something evolves far past it or in reality doesn't do what it says, what does it matter? What really gets me is those who say "You believe in x so you're a feminist!" really? If I were to ask you if you believe all people should ideally have access to equal amount of resources, the ability to get ahead in life, access to whatever they may need, all people were truly equal I am sure you'd say yes, but what if I responded with "Well that makes you a communist!"? Bet you would disagree.
I think what you are missing is equal opportunity, equal protection under the law, not access to equal amounts of resources. Its not the same thing. Nothing will be absolutely equal between men and women or between individuals but all should share the same legal protection and have the same right to pursue resources.
Quote:
A great deal of those responding are talking of older times, and if indeed what you say happened is true, that does suck, but we can't focus on the past, we need to focus on the present and the future, the only things that ultimately matter. As it stands women are getting more degrees in college and making more money than men, at least in my age group (I am 30) and despite what feminists will say, you don't have to worry about "things going back to the 50s", as things stand today and in the future, nothing is stopping any woman who works hard, is intelligent and is good at what she does from getting a good paying job.
Indeed true, really? Its documented in our history, our media, our laws and policies. That's like saying if enslavement, discrimination and oppression of blacks was indeed true. Our past should not be forgotten least it repeat itself.
Quote:
Likewise, in companies there are plenty of programs aimed at men about sexual harassment and such so any woman that deals with such has plenty of recourse. However, as I have found out in my many years of working there isn't so when it comes to women that harass or hurt other women. In my last job that I had for 8 years it actually started as a mostly male work environment, but there were a few women and it was all great but over the years it shifted where women made up most of management and employees and it was hell. When I got pregnant my female boss acted as if I was going to become some huge burden and made some rude/mean comments and I documented it and actually reported her to HR but of course they didn't care.
I am pretty sure sexual harassment policies and laws apply to both men and women.
Quote:
For my daughter, I know I am far more concerned that she's going to end up with some psycho women as bosses than male ones that will sexually harass her or what have you for certain.
Thats a strange thing to be concerned about.
Quote:
One thing that gets me is that feminists claim to be about "equality" but only decide to make a big stink when it's something men do. Shouldn't they be just as upset at women that have been caught making false rape accusations and women that are the aggressor in domestic situations? I know those will respond with "Oh, but look at the numbers/statistics!", what does it matter? Whether it's big or small they should be equally outraged and wanting punishment.
Generally women's rights groups dont take on personal individual court cases. Womens' advocates are more interested in laws in general that might discriminate on the bases of gender. There is really nothing to be done about false accusations or police reports. There are already laws to deal with those situations.
Quote:
Another big one is that feminists care far more about women being in positions of power than actually being good at it. Just look at Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton, Janet Reno, Madeline Albright, Cristina Fernández de Kirchner, etc. etc. etc. all filthy disgusting human beings that have been all kinds of corrupt and made decisions that have ultimately hurt women and would have no problem sacrificing other women if it meant more more yet are end up being highly praised just because hey, they are women, and they are in powerful positions, who cares how many peasant women gets hurt, right?
Again, not the job performance police. The concern is that women get opportunity for equal representation in political positions.
Quote:
Truly amazing how feminists sure aren't going out in droves protesting these invaders which are FAR worse than you could ever hope to see with your average western male. Funny how Angela Merkel, Hillary Clinton and friends are such big fans, huh? I guarantee what they are far worse than anything Trump has or could do. But hey, "girl power!!!" so they shouldn't get any criticism no matter how much they hurt other women.
See, feminists aren't rabid women going out in droves protesting. Basically they live their own peaceful lives and might work on a committee or lobby for issues that are important to them, as women.
Quote:
Even though I am having a daughter, my better half and I plan to have more children and if I have a son I can guarantee I will be more concerned for what it will be like for him growing up than my daughter.
You should be equally concerned for your children regardless of their gender.
Quote:
I realize that for many of the older women this part will not really matter, but with the way young men are today most use the Internet heavily, and what do they see? Feminists talking about "toxic masculinity" "mansplaining" "manspreading" and all sort of absurd things. We need men on our side and frankly with so much of this feminist crap men read I am not surprised many aren't super into "the feminist cause". I know feminists say that we should be happy they fought for us, but I think what we should really be glad for is men being more sympathetic and understanding. Women in the middle east have been "fighting" for how long now, and yet how much has that helped them? The fact of the matter is, we are very privileged in the western countries that men have changed their views, because let's be honest, even in the west if men truly wanted to, there is nothing keeping us living like women in the middle east do. Fortunately men in the west have evolved higher thinking, and going on and on about how bad men are is NOT helping!
The only way your going to see feminists talking about toxic masculinity on the internet is if you go in search of it. Most young men are looking at their FB or porn, or sports, or cars or whatever they are into.
Feminists are keeping us from living like women in the middle east. As long as women have political and financial power there is no need to rely on the sympathies and understanding of men.
The concern is that women get opportunity for equal representation in political positions.
Back in 2008, Sarah Palin was running for vice president, the second highest office in politics. But people thought she was nuts and went for Obama instead.
In fact, lots of people don't vote for someone based on gender.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
Feminists are keeping us from living like women in the middle east.
They support politicians like Hillary Clinton and her party that wants to bring in refugees from middle eastern countries who treat women like slaves.
Back in 2008, Sarah Palin was running for vice president, the second highest office in politics. But people thought she was nuts and went for Obama instead.
In fact, lots of people don't vote for someone based on gender.
They support politicians like Hillary Clinton and her party that wants to bring in refugees from middle eastern countries who treat women like slaves.
And that's definitely a conflict, but I think the sympathy for suffering people overrules any judgmentalism about their cultural practices.
Listen, I have a friend, as liberal as can be. She has been living in in Jordan because of work for the past seven or eight years. When the Syrian refugees began swarming over the border and were put into the camps set up for them in Jordan a few years ago, she and some others went there to see what they could do. They felt helpless at first--people showing pictures of their families on their cell phones, ending with "but they are all dead now". People who hadn't bathed in ages and had no soap or shampoo. She said the first day, she went home, looked at all her teenage daughter's hair products in the bathroom, and sat on the floor and cried.
She and others went back to the camps, and they taught the women and the girls how to knit. She put the word out back here that they needed yarn and needles donated, and people responded. Eventually, the woman and girls learned to make hats and mittens and scarves and sweaters and blankets that they sell to make a living for themselves.
My friend didn't worry about what these women's religion was or what their cultural practices were, even though they likely go against hers quite a bit. She saw people suffering and desperately in need and found some little thing she could do to help alleviate the suffering.
That's why people are willing to let refugees in even if they are from a completely different culture whose beliefs in how women are treated go against ours. It seems as if helping is the right thing to do because we have the resources, especially when other first world countries are stepping up. What is our excuse for not?
And if women as a group do not guard their fought for rights (remember we did not have them as a default as free men did) there is a chance we will loose them. Feminism noticeably began around the 1800's, it wasn't till the 1970's that women gained some rights we take for granted 1978 work while preg. 1977 report sexual harassment, 1974 get a credit card, in the 1980;s women weren't covered under maternity leave, in 1990 women couldn't serve in combat roles....etc.
1970's may see like a long time to you but for some of us it was like yesterday, we lived it. Even today there are issues that affect women, poverty, violence, reproductive rights, breast feeding, child care, sex trafficking. Women are still underrepresented in politics, stem fields, judicial positions. Im sure people thought there was absolutely no longer any need for feminism in the 1800's when women got property rights and in 1910 when they got the right to vote, in 1965 when the pill became legal for married women, in 1974 when they were allowed their own credit. Freedom is not something one can let sit idle.
Excellent post. I just have one correction - it wasn't until 1920 that women got the vote in the US. 1920!!! That's within the lifetime of some of our eldest fellow citizens.
The issue of labor is not 100% black and white but has some shades to the issue. That goes for race too. Or race and sex. The movie Doubt was arguably very historically accurate of the period the story was set in. The black mother (race and sex) in the story was employed, she worked, but the type of work she did was telling. She worked as a domestic servant--presumably for a white upper-middle-class family--which was not uncommon during that period (which I believe was roughly the 1960s or maybe late '50s).
You compare that to today in terms of black female labor. Very few if any work as domestic servants. And white women are no longer simply found laboring in jobs like being a secretary (interestingly enough, a job mostly held by men in the Catholic priesthood when it comes to Bishops: who Bishops have as secretaries) or being an assembly hand on the line of a manufacturing floor.
What would you attribute to the dramatic rise of women being found in the prestigious jobs?
Go back further than the dawn of the USA as a country and in the West one of the best ways for a woman to work in a professional field was to become a nun. Those were the only women found running schools and hospitals.
Before the United States even existed men born into poor families took on the trade of their fathers usually. They were therefore kept out of professional fields too. Likewise, joining the priesthood afforded some the potential to labor professionally.
(The term "professional" has usually been reserved to denote the white collar educated that work in fields that have taken some greater intellectual exercise on a daily basis. Career fields like being a teacher, lawyer, medical doctor, engineer and so forth.)
So, there are more shades to the history of labor than it simply being an entirely black and white issue. But in general, speaking broadly, women were historically kept out of the prestigious career fields.
For me this is not as much a Republican vs Democratic issue. Although, the issue is politicized, if by no other reason than feminist doing so.
But rather I look at it more through the lens one looks through when learning from a well written novel of the historical-fiction genre or a well written play set in a given period. There is more to learn from art and "literature" in this sense than from political talking points.
Feminist tend to do political talking points in which the history of male labor is presented as one predominately of wealthy educated people laboring in "the professions." On the other side are those that deny entirely that women were often kept out of the prestigious professions.
Please remember Griswald v Conn. was just 50 years ago.
Before that my SIL had to go to another state to get BC pills.
Reliable bc enabled women to go to school and to work. There are people today trying to make BC against the law.
We also don't need any more Sally Ride moments when she said the women's movement had nothing to do with her being an astronaut.
We stand on the shoulders of many people who went through hell to get us here. It could all go away tomorrow. Thank goodness American business likes women in the workforce.
Around 1990, dh was assigned a workgroup in another town. Before he had his first visit a woman gave him a heads up. The supervisor in that workgroup enjoyed the women sitting on his lap and giving him a kiss in exchange for their paycheck. DH made it a point to be there when the checks came, so he witnessed it. He informed the guy that this was his final notice. If it ever happened again the guy would be gone. That was just 25 years ago, folks.
I think feminism is a like a religion for women that can't decide what it wants to be about. In the past ten years ago or so it has become far more stifling than liberating. It's a tyranny of caring. Oh what you don't CARE?! That makes a million marginalized peoples cry! WAAAAAAAA!
You know what, I really don't care about other women or their problems. My attitude is that I should protect my interests and **** the rest. This is the cardinal sin of bleeding heart feminism, but the irony is that I got here by NOT listening to what others tell me and by rejecting the opinions of people who tried to tell me how to live as a woman. Meaning I think it's funny that feminism is supposed to be about rejecting structures that hold women down, then telling women that if they don't listen to feminist or care about their hobby horses they are bad. Oh, really?
I wrote a post in great debates about feminism today, but after reading the replies there I realized - I'm NOT a feminist, I really don't like feminism at all, and I don't need other women's opinions dictating mine. It would be nice to support women, but feminism is just a secular religion and I'm an atheist. Who needs a bunch of unrelated baggage like feminism? I've got enough to deal with without a bunch of finger-waggers telling me who my heart needs to bleed for today. No thanks.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
