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We did horrible things in south Texas as a kid too. I think that's just something kids did before the Internet or decent video games. Our call of duty was killing pigs with shotguns at 2 in the morning by baiting them with corn and using spotlights. And no, we never ate them. They were left for the yotes.
Not something I'm proud of, but that's why I don't judge.
you stepped in it...
That's what libs with anti gun agendas just Love to hate...
That surely paints a picture of us as evil.
Coyotes were a problem in Upstate NY. Dress a deer come out the next morning rear legs are all that's left hanging! They're savages. But Cityiots were a bigger problem.
Buy up the farms subdivide the land build half million dollar houses... Property Taxes raise due to it...
Then they get on the town board. They hate noise and dictate life to the rest of us. Cops have to enforce the BS noise ordinance so no more glass packs on our trucks and straight pipes on Harley's. But they're country boys like us and bag them and their kids with their blasting sub woofers in their cars.
The cityiots hate hearing rifles being sighted in, or shooting targets and make claims oh it's so unsafe to walk or hike I'm afraid I'll get shot and I didn't come up here to listen to that noise!
Hunting on Sunday, gone. Eventually from making enough noise about us blasting down back roads the cops went out to write us tickets, and to be fair, wrote the cityiots tickets and had depositions against them for using radar/laser detectors
They got even with the police and voted them out. Good job!
(Without the local police in a rural area 9/11 response times increased significantly. Sheriffs barracks was a half hour drive, state troopers barracks an hour drive. State provided funding for closer barracks to be built but with the heroin epidemic junkies were having a field day breaking into their half million dollar summer/weekend homes stripping copper pipe and TVs etc to support their habit)
Deer population got out of hand, poetic justice! They start nailing Bambi with thier 50-100k dollar Mercedes Audi Lexus BMW
Something must be done. Meet with ENCON and dept of wildlife. They come up with another "solution"
Go to Vermont bring in the mountain lions to control the deer population... Until they started going into farms and nailing cattle and chickens...
They are a scourge. They should Stay south of Dutchess county... Nope.
Then along comes Sandy Hook and cuomo passes the safe act...
Fought it fought it fought it. Got nowhere. Adios Ny and your high taxes and liberal agendas.
Was a toss up between Florida and Texas. Moved to Florida to be closer with family.
Sorry, but 5.56x45 doesn't penetrate well into things like bone or soft tissue because it's too light and once again, it fragments. Even with a steel core, it simply doesn't have the inertia to keep pushing trough once it hit's something. Also, FMJ Steel core ammo(which is illegal to hunt with in almost every state) is designed to penetrate light armor not large animals.
Again sweeping statement. What bullet? 35gr to 77gr? What bullet construction?
Whether something is designed or not to do something isn't relevant to the discussions. Screwdrivers aren't designed to be chisels, but they can do the job if needed. Fact is that they work.
Where you getting FMJ Steel core is illegal to hunt with in almost every state? FMJ is legal to hunt with in 40 states, in Tejas the requirement for wild hogs is "centerfire", here's a link discussing M855 and includes a section on hog hunting (about half way down the article) The Truth About M855 5.56 NATO Ammunition - The Truth About Guns
Quote:
While the Army has moved on to an improved version of the M855 projectile, the cartridge has become popular with long range shooters and hunters. Especially for those*huntinghogs in the thick brush of the American south, the M855 cartridge has proven to be capable of accurately and effectively hitting a target even after passing through a couple layers of leaves and underbrush. Its also popular among helicopter hog depredation expeditions for the same reason:
Guess those guys in Texas didn't get your memo on legality. Seems they find it effective too, so who am I to believe? Me a hunter who fed himself for years on hunted game and knows what he's talking about, and other hunters who use the rounds under discussion on the animals under discussion successfully enough for it to be used on pest control helicopter patrols?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt1979
This is why something like say a 45/70 is common for really big animals like bear, moose, or bison and something like 270 win (which has over a thousand pound more energy) is not. A 140 grain 270 win moving at almost 300fps doesn't have the inertia to keep pushing through bone and soft tissue the way a 405 grain 45/70 moving half that speed will. A lot of hunters these days like the best of both worlds and use large rounds that are also moving pretty fast like the 338 win-mag, but nobody that knows their **** is using fast and light on big animals regardless of what the bullet is made of. It's a matter of physics.
a 270 at 300fps? I think you're an order of magnitude out. If you passed the shooter flat out in any modern supercar as he fired you'd outrun it.
Stop switching the goalposts. The discussion we engaged in was about the effectiveness or not of M855 on wild hogs, it's not even about whether it's optimal, it's just about whether or not it's within scope of the round.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt1979
Granted, most wild hogs (especially in Texas) are nowhere near the size of the animals I just listed, but this same theory still caries over. It goes back to what I was saying in a previous post about how a 250 grain cast 45 LC moving less than thousand feet per second is a formidable hog round, while a 55-70 grain 5.56 that is moving 3 times the speed packing more than twice the energy is not.
Goalposts again. A BMG moving at 3000fps kicks the 45 colt in the gluteals too. But people run what the brung.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrt1979
This doesn't mean a 5.56 won't kill large animals, it just means is won't consistently reach their vitals (even with steel core ammo) without a lucky shot (doesn't hit a bone)
Well given your content I will accept it may need a lucky shot from you. However you're grossly underestimating the good ol' M855, if bone will stop it, then explain head shots by it against the thickest and strongest bone in the human body. M855 will consistently put out the lights of anyone shot in the brain pan.
You can buy/load good bullets for deer in the 80 and even 90 grain weight. They will be round nose to fit in a mag for an AR but If I only had one gun I wouldn't shy away from using it. The 90s you'd have to single feed but it would make a good first round out to 200 yards. Many deer species don't get over 140 lbs and an 80 grain well designed bullet will punch through a shoulder just fine.
I'd rather have another upper for it in 6.5 or .300 blk.
Yeah, I've never really had too much of a problem with 5.56 for small or medium sized deer. Even a 55 grain SP in the breadbox seems to put a them down fairly consistently. There's just no room for error. Pigs are another story from my experience. They typically require a CNS shot or multiple shots for a humane kill.
Again sweeping statement. What bullet? 35gr to 77gr? What bullet construction?
Whether something is designed or not to do something isn't relevant to the discussions. Screwdrivers aren't designed to be chisels, but they can do the job if needed. Fact is that they work.
Where you getting FMJ Steel core is illegal to hunt with in almost every state? FMJ is legal to hunt with in 40 states, in Tejas the requirement for wild hogs is "centerfire", here's a link discussing M855 and includes a section on hog hunting (about half way down the article) The Truth About M855 5.56 NATO Ammunition - The Truth About Guns
Guess those guys in Texas didn't get your memo on legality. Seems they find it effective too, so who am I to believe? Me a hunter who fed himself for years on hunted game and knows what he's talking about, and other hunters who use the rounds under discussion on the animals under discussion successfully enough for it to be used on pest control helicopter patrols?
a 270 at 300fps? I think you're an order of magnitude out. If you passed the shooter flat out in any modern supercar as he fired you'd outrun it.
Stop switching the goalposts. The discussion we engaged in was about the effectiveness or not of M855 on wild hogs, it's not even about whether it's optimal, it's just about whether or not it's within scope of the round.
Goalposts again. A BMG moving at 3000fps kicks the 45 colt in the gluteals too. But people run what the brung.
Well given your content I will accept it may need a lucky shot from you. However you're grossly underestimating the good ol' M855, if bone will stop it, then explain head shots by it against the thickest and strongest bone in the human body. M855 will consistently put out the lights of anyone shot in the brain pan.
I don't think you actually hunt. We'll leave it at that. If you did, you wouldn't be arguing with anything I posted. That's how I know. It's no different than when newbs argue with me on lifting forums. I know they're lying because I've been doing it at a high level for over 30 years.
Enjoy your army stuff. Like I said, I don't judge.
1. All of the above. Have different flavors of each variant. Just like I have different sized wrenches and sockets in my tool box. Each one has a specific purpose.
5.56 is abundant, used to be cheaper, still can be had on the cheap if you know where to look.
Provides a lot of fun to be had at the range.
2. 855 within 100 yards is going to put porky down issue free. You should already know the twist rate and barrel length will dictate velocity and what does the 5.56 have going for it? Velocity I don't consider it a "powerful round" My bolt guns, my shotguns, they have powerful rounds. But I don't like plucking tons of fragment out of meat. And that's what you get with something bringing a large caliber and more kinetic energy...
Exactly
Your first statement is true At distance outside 150 yards you're only going to upset porky! But you contradict yourself with it was designed to penetrate armor not bone... If it can punch through steel it will surely have no issue through bone... I do agree with distance for at distance the 5.56 doesn't carry enough kinetic energy to pierce the bone it will only upset porky, And may even be charged by porky... And if you are being charged... That 30 round magazine is your best friend... I don't think porky is going to stop and let you swap another mag after you've slung 1 round into his side with 4-9 misses as he's charging...
The one in 308 made for quick clean drops of white tail in Ny but the libs say it's a military style weapon that can't serve a purpose other than to be used in a spree... No it's a modular sporting rifle that can be built in various calibers for various purposes while retaining semi auto platform 400 yards was the furthest I've ever shot out with it taking 2 bucks which were 10 yards apart. First one dropped instantly second one sprung his head up from the crack, got him and he took off with the does all of 50 feet from where he stood...
Can't do that with a bolt gun by the time you chambered another round he would be gone!
Join a hunting or reloading forum, and post a link to this conversation. Prepare to get 10 pages of what I just posted. Seriously, do it. You need to know.
A lot of hunters these days like the best of both worlds and use large rounds that are also moving pretty fast like the 338 win-mag, but nobody that knows their **** is using fast and light on big animals regardless of what the bullet is made of.
Heh 338 win-mag is an excellent hunting round but makes for a sore shoulder after an hour or so on the range. My buddy brought one shooting a while back that kicked as hard if not harder than my 12 gauge (or at least it seemed that way).
Join a hunting or reloading forum, and post a link to this conversation. Prepare to get 10 pages of what I just posted. Seriously, do it. You need to know.
No I actually hunt... And I do know. Been out to Ockeechobee 3 times hunting hogs on a citrus farm. Good eating, very tender meat! Guess you'd really have a field day, one sow I put down with 1 round... Was 5.45x39 out of an AK variant... Oh my, smaller than a 5.56! Impossible! 7N6 steel core too! Again. Inside 100 yards.
Guess what a 308 30-06 with standard FMJ does when it hits a pork shoulder? Sends fragments of bone everywhere and splits apart sending tiny bits of lead throughout the wound channel. Plus that ammo cost more... If in doubt aim for the eye/ear. You already know what a 12ga Slug will do to a hog...
I don't need a forum guru to dictate what the end result will be. I'll let my first hand expirience do the talking...
Thanks though. Had my share of well my uncles brothers twice removed second cousins best friend says________.
Or my buddy knows a guy who says______.
Research says____.
I don't subscribe to drivel. Or suppression.
(Unless we're talking about threading cans on the end of barrels)
Heh 338 win-mag is an excellent hunting round but makes for a sore shoulder after an hour or so on the range. My buddy brought one shooting a while back that kicked as hard if not harder than my 12 gauge (or at least it seemed that way).
I know a lot of guys that are into the big stuff, 300,338 mag, lapua, etc.
I never did get into them. Biggest stuff I have is .30-06, .308, and 7.62x54.
Even with those, I would still take a Model Seven in 7mm-08 out for serious harvesting. It weighs five or six lbs with a scope and with the worked over trigger it is golden under 300yards.
Heh 338 win-mag is an excellent hunting round but makes for a sore shoulder after an hour or so on the range. My buddy brought one shooting a while back that kicked as hard if not harder than my 12 gauge (or at least it seemed that way).
I've actually never shot a 338 Win mag, but I've shot 375 H&H as well as 416 Rigby. Honestly, neither gun kicked as bad as this old single shot sawed off 10 gauge my dad used to own when I was younger. Both the 375 and the 416 were VERY heavy double rifles. Both kicked like a mule, but this old 10 gauge with a goose load in it kicked so bad that your fingers would go numb. I even had some dumb**** buddy in HS that tried to shoot it from the hip that ended up slicing his hand open with the trigger guard when the thing went flying LOL
No I actually hunt... And I do know. Been out to Ockeechobee 3 times hunting hogs on a citrus farm. Good eating, very tender meat! Guess you'd really have a field day, one sow I put down with 1 round... Was 5.45x39 out of an AK variant... Oh my, smaller than a 5.56! Impossible! 7N6 steel core too! Again. Inside 100 yards.
Guess what a 308 30-06 with standard FMJ does when it hits a pork shoulder? Sends fragments of bone everywhere and splits apart sending tiny bits of lead throughout the wound channel. Plus that ammo cost more... If in doubt aim for the eye/ear. You already know what a 12ga Slug will do to a hog...
I don't need a forum guru to dictate what the end result will be. I'll let my first hand expirience do the talking...
Thanks though. Had my share of well my uncles brothers twice removed second cousins best friend says________.
Or my buddy knows a guy who says______.
Research says____.
I don't subscribe to drivel. Or suppression.
(Unless we're talking about threading cans on the end of barrels)
If it's working for you than more power to you. Like I said, I've killed hogs with a bolt action 22lr, so it's not like I'm saying it can't be done. I've just seen a lot of hogs go for an extended run with smaller calibers and tend to go with the general consensus with hog calibers, which is 30 cal if you ask most hunters.
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you stepped in it...
