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Liberals and the Left are the reason Trump got elected.
Liberals and the Left are the ONLY reason Trump got elected.
I like much of what he is doing, but if the democrats had run a decent reasonably electable candidate, Trump would never have won the election.
The democrats have no one to blame but themselves for a Trump Presidency.
It appears they may not have learned the lesson given a couple of the top contenders for head of the party. If you're of the mind that you want the democrats to keep losing elections, I guess you could cheer them on, and encourage them to "double down" on their strategy of belittling and disparaging a large part of the country that actually keeps the lights of the USA on, and pays their own bills every month.
Everyone not supporting them is a "deplorable", racist and worthless individual in their opinion...and they they keep loudly proclaiming this. And if you're white, you're automatically twice as bad.
If you can provide any evidence -- any evidence whatsoever -- to justify or prove the comment I have bolded above, you really should, or you really should also not engage in claiming such falsehoods!
To which part do you expect me to provide evidence? That Liberals are willing to commence bringing refugees in? Or that the refugees being brought in are high risk?
For the former, just refer back to the Democratic party's position during the election. For the latter, look to the few incidents that did actually get publicized in the media about refugees involved in terror plots in the last year in the U.S.... Better still, look to the incidents in countries that have widely adopted the Democratic Party's strategy on refugees, Germany in particular. The New Years Eve incident last year where many women were raped in the streets by Syrian migrants. The terrorist attack in France where one of the perpetrators was a Muslim refugee. etc.
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Or..., if it is the exchange of falsehoods you prefer, how about this one?
Conservatives are willing to undermine the most important of American principles and values out of FEAR, and in so doing further aggravate the source of those fears, while liberals not so much."
That's one way to look at it. I look at it as common sense. Not cutting off our nose to spite our face.
I think the damage Trump does to the Republican party is entirely dependent on how far down the rabbit hole the Republicans are willing to follow him.
Within just a few days of his presidency, it's already obvious Trump plans to throw massive amounts of money around, especially at anything he needs to justify to soothe his ego or to back up his ridiculous campaign statements.
Does anyone actually know for a fact how many illegals there are in the nation, for example? Or if they are actually flooding in?
without those facts, how much real money would be needed to stop them?
I don't know if the flood exists or not, and I don't know how many illegals there are here from facts.
I've read estimates, but estimates can be far off, as is obvious from the dispute over the inauguration's crown size. It seems to me that if a crowd concentrated in one small area can't be semi-accurately estimated in a way all can agree on, trying to estimate a crowd that is spread all over the nation and isn't making themselves easy to count is going to be a much harder proposition.
And just making an estimate that is generally agreeable is going to cost billions, all by itself. This is a big country, with a large population. Trying to find those folks would cost big money.
With no facts, how are we ever to know if a multi-billion wall is ever going to work, or even slow a flood. Does a flood even exist? If not, then why build the wall at all?
That's just one of Trump's rabbit holes. Like any rabbit, he has a hundred more of them. He doesn't care if they all lead nowhere. He is not going to foot any of the bills from them.
Congressional Republicans are not all idiots by a long shot. Since there will be more Republican senators coming up for re-election in 2018 than Democrats, I fully expect Trump is going to have a lot more trouble pushing through his excessive agenda than he realizes.
And once the pain starts as a result of most of that agenda, those Senators will be the ones who have to answer for going along with him to their constituencies.
It's risky to back anything Trump says or proposes. That's the only fact that's in front of everyone right now. If the Republican party puts a collar on him and chains him to the doghouse, the party won't be hurt; Trump is a true RINO who never associated himself with the party.
It was nothing more that a vehicle for him. I don't think he's given a thought to the possibility that vehicle is a big bus, and can run right over him at any moment.
The kool-aid drinkers, perhaps..... I won't argue that point, but neither will I try to argue that this gullibility is exclusive to Trump supporters.
Well it's true, isn't it? I mean, don't bother taking my word for it, Obama said it himself in his farewell speech when he spoke of people getting too comfortable in our bubbles and only accepting information that fits what we already believe.
We have people who argue that President Obama was a great President and we have people who argue that he was a terrible President.... One of these groups has to be wrong, and more likely than not, both are to a degree and the truth is somewhere in the middle. What this does tell us, undeniably so, is that we as a people long ago ceased working from a common set of facts, and instead color our perception of truth by that which we would prefer to believe instead of what the actual facts tell us.
Good points/questions. What are YOUR answers? I'll give you mine...
It is not true or nearly that simple to just reverse a statement and claim it's just as true. For example, one can claim Global Warming is a serious problem. Another can claim Global Warming is a hoax. Someone can claim they saw thousands of Muslims cheering on 9/11. Another can claim there was no such group cheering. Someone can say the U.S. has been admitting dangerous refugees into the country. Another can attempt to point out this is not true...
Just because you can argue the reverse in each case does not make both arguments equal. Right? Both can't be correct.
Instead (and I have tried to argue this before), we are required to evaluate all the facts, "triangulate for the truth," and determine what is true, what is correct, what is prudent and best, BASED ON THE PREPONDERANCE OF FACTS AND EVIDENCE, and I don't mean "alternative facts."
You are trying to argue that Trump supporters are no more gullible than Obama supporters. This is a difficult sort of statement to prove one way or another, but given the outlandish claims by Trump since he appeared on the political stage, and still the "alternative facts" being argued today, it's obviously the Trump supporters who are still buying that garbage, and I do mean garbage. I am not aware of any such outlandishness argued by Obama or Hillary that followers can be considered gullible for supporting.
I have too many examples when it comes to Trump to count, and you surely don't need any. What have you got of the same nature from Obama? That the push for a new national health care system is not a panacea for our health care problems? Obama never claimed that, and this is public policy pointing in essentially the same direction as EVERY OTHER MODERN ADVANCE COUNTRY! Can't argue that's nonsense! Right?
Again to these differences between you and I that you want to believe are not so different, you wrote, "I was vehemently opposed to Trump in the primaries because I recognized just how unfit and unqualified he was to hold that office." I have never voted for anyone to take office who I believed was unfit. Big difference there too, don't you think?!?
If you can't see these differences, I am surely at a loss as to how to get you to see any better, and this is what I believe is the countries problem in general, to get people to see better and NOT vote for someone like Trump! At least not repeat the same mistake...
We have people who argue that President Obama was a great President and we have people who argue that he was a terrible President.... One of these groups has to be wrong, and more likely than not, both are to a degree and the truth is somewhere in the middle.
Understood, but not really...
We have people who argue the earth is flat. They are called Flat Earthers, and they are real. We have people who think the Earth is round. Just because the two types of people exist, does not mean "the truth is somewhere in the middle." Right?
Agreed, politics is a little different, more "gray area," but when I REALLY want to establish what sort of POTUS Obama or any of the others has proven to be, I don't just consider what people or you or me tends to think. Just like with the issue of Global Warming. I don't just consider Trump's opinion versus Obama's, yours or mine, I look for opinion/determination made by those most knowledgeable about the subject.
In the case of both Obama's legacy and Global Warming, when considering the opinion of those with opinion considered far more knowledgeable, better researched and with broad unbiased criteria, over and over I have found these opinions to establish Obama as above average a POTUS and Global Warming a real threat to our environment.
I hope I don't need to dredge up all the official studies and/or more substantive evidence in these regards, but I have been at it for a very long time now, and I've seen all the counter argument about what "other people" simply think. Accordingly, if you have ANY truly substantive evidence to counter what I am considering the better-established truth of these matters, by all means show me what I have missed.
Or at least provide what criteria you think we need to use when trying to establish what is true and what is BS beyond just the fact that people have different opinion about these realities.
USA has been browning since the 1950s and so far it hasn't hurt the GOP. First, most of the decline of White population share are Liberals who have much lower fertility rates than GOP voters (especially Christian evangelicals). Evidence suggest White GOP voters have a steady perhaps slightly growing population while White Liberals are going through a population crash. Second, the GOP is gaining enough share of White votes to make up for the slow but steady increasing share of non White voters, that won't reverse until Democrats stop relying on identity politics. Third, as today's immigrants become assimilated they will likely be more interested in mainstream issues rather than focusing on immigrant solidarity. Trump made building the wall a center campaign issue and still got 33% of Hispanic votes, presumably mostly from multigenerational Hispanic Americans.
At some point the US would be so diverse that those points aren't enough to keep the GOP afloat. But that's 30 years away and who knows what the issues of then will be.
Not at all sure about all these conclusions, and I've not the time to think too much further about them, but I can quickly comment -- in the spirit of getting the facts correct -- we may again need to ask what to believe and why...
First off, it's pretty hard for anyone fearing deportation themselves or of their family members to think much beyond "immigrant solidarity." Mainstream issues are hardly important if one doesn't remain in the country let alone part of the "mainstream." No big mystery here and why Hispanics swung heavily away from Trump.
Then too, the numbers.
Latino leaders are refusing to accept exit poll data showing President-elect Donald Trump won 29 percent of the Hispanic vote Tuesday.
Instead the leaders said they stand by the findings of Latino Decisions polling firm, whose data showed Trump a record low 18 percent of Latinos voted for Trump.
Maybe these Latino leaders are taking a page from Trump's alternative facts playbook, but these polls are becoming more and more suspect by the day. Are they not? Add the fact that lots of Hispanics did not vote, just like lots of Americans didn't vote, and who really knows how many people support Trump, let alone Hispanics. All indication and/or evidence I can see, however, the number is low and very likely a historic low.
Liberals and the Left are the ONLY reason Trump got elected.
I like much of what he is doing, but if the democrats had run a decent reasonably electable candidate, Trump would never have won the election.
The democrats have no one to blame but themselves for a Trump Presidency.
It appears they may not have learned the lesson given a couple of the top contenders for head of the party. If you're of the mind that you want the democrats to keep losing elections, I guess you could cheer them on, and encourage them to "double down" on their strategy of belittling and disparaging a large part of the country that actually keeps the lights of the USA on, and pays their own bills every month.
Everyone not supporting them is a "deplorable", racist and worthless individual in their opinion...and they they keep loudly proclaiming this. And if you're white, you're automatically twice as bad.
There are a few significant reasons that Trump is now POTUS, and hard to argue that those on the left don't hold some responsibility for dropping the ball, lots of responsibility, but I think a very big difference now is the "wake up call" that Trump getting elected represents for just about everyone. Next go around, now that people more inclined to the left have been shocked into realizing that complacency may lead to a second term, there is going to be a turnout against Trump from the left like never seen before. Just a hunch...
What "much of what he is doing" is much more than vague Executive Orders pointing us backwards I wonder. No matter what one's views about Trump's wall between us and Mexico, for example, why the absurdity of insisting Mexico will pay for it one way or another? I wish I had thought of that when I built my fence between me and my neighbor. I should have just given him the bill and expected him to pay, and also expected him to come over for a BBQ...
Trump supporters understand this somehow, and think that waste of billions is a good thing? Do tell!
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