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Our Declaration of Independence talks about the right to Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness (read property). Some people like to sweep that under the rug.
I believe we have a right to healthcare.
The right to life, yes... what this means is the right to not have another hamper, or interrupt such. That means I have no right to stop your pursuit to life, to liberty and happiness.
That also means you do not have the right to impede my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This means you have no right to demand I pay for you. You see... being free means you are responsible for yourself, not anyone else and your rights do not extend to demanding others service you, be it your demand for food, water, shelter, or health. You see, to demand another service you would mean they no longer have the right to liberty as you will have removed such by your demand.
I think you need to pay more attention to the founding fathers and the ratification debates. You don't seem to understand what liberty is. Liberty is not subjugating others because you have a need, that is merely a rationalized slavery.
So, you have a right to provide for your own health care. You have a right to seek it and make deals to achieve it. You do not have the right to subjugate others to pay for it or force others to provide it. I think your understanding of "rights" are a bit confused.
My husband's grandmother was on a waiting list for a knee surgery for 4 years before she gave up, and his step mother just recently had back surgery. Took over 6 months to get in to see a specialist, another 6 months to have the surgery, and afterwards sent home with pain medication. No physical therapy. She's a little better, but not much.
However, your right to an 18-week waiting time does not apply if:
you choose to wait longer
delaying the start of your treatment is in your best clinical interests – for example, where stopping smoking or losing weight is likely to improve the outcome of the treatment
it is clinically appropriate for your condition to be actively monitored in secondary care without clinical intervention or diagnostic procedures at that stage
you fail to attend appointments that you had chosen from a set of reasonable options
Does someone who's fat and smokes have a "right" to my taxes when they have a heart attack?
What about people with heart disease or cancer in their family? Should we pay for healthcare for them or their kids?
I personally wouldn't mind paying taxes for the unlucky, but makes me wonder about the irresponsible and the issue of compliance.
If "buying" insurance is a service/product, then I've (or my employer) made a contract with the insurance company to pay for the agreed amount of health care services. The way I see it, the insurance company is taking the gamble that I will take care of myself as much as possible and stay "lucky" enough to remain without long term illness or injury.
So to use a typical cold business like example, you don't buy fire insurance after a fire. Of course when buying the insurance, certain things like having smoke alarms, residents smoking etc. come into play in the premium one pays. If the government took over fire insurance, where the citizen doesn't pay for it, how would that work in assessing the risk?
Speaking of "compliance"... it's a pretty serious issue already when it comes to organ transplants for instance. I know someone who recently received a kidney, and she has to take several medications a day. She can't miss a single dose and if she does and her kidney rejects and needs a new kidney, she has to start the process over. Many people are not admitted to transplant programs if they have a history of non compliance like my friend who's brother needed a new liver and was kicked off the transplant list because he continued to drink. He died a horrible death.
No, the solution would be if you truly believe you live in such a horrible situation to look for a better one. Why are you not doing so? Because it's easier to sit and complain instead of acting to solve your alleged problem?
What's a "better situation"?
Less State?
By your argument you should be in North Korea where the State is even more involved in your life.
By your argument you should be in North Korea where the State is even more involved in your life.
That is the essence of a progressives position. They just are afraid to admit that what they want is absolute total state control dictating to everyone.
Like Grubber said, if they tried to sell it for what it was, nobody would buy into it. Progressives have to lie to get you to accept it. You will just have to wait and see after they have implemented their government to find out! Trust them though, it will be so good for everyone! /throwup
I don't really get why people say this kind of thing. God/Jesus said to take care of your neighbor, sure. That means you do what you can to help them. He didn't say "force your neighbor to help people". In fact, he says not to take from your neighbor or covet what they have.
Ok fine, so taxes are theft. How would you propose we build roads, educate kids and pay for police and fire services? Do you think that any/all of those things could be achieved through charitable contributions?
The right to life, yes... what this means is the right to not have another hamper, or interrupt such. That means I have no right to stop your pursuit to life, to liberty and happiness.
That also means you do not have the right to impede my right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. This means you have no right to demand I pay for you. You see... being free means you are responsible for yourself, not anyone else and your rights do not extend to demanding others service you, be it your demand for food, water, shelter, or health. You see, to demand another service you would mean they no longer have the right to liberty as you will have removed such by your demand.
I think you need to pay more attention to the founding fathers and the ratification debates. You don't seem to understand what liberty is. Liberty is not subjugating others because you have a need, that is merely a rationalized slavery.
So, you have a right to provide for your own health care. You have a right to seek it and make deals to achieve it. You do not have the right to subjugate others to pay for it or force others to provide it. I think your understanding of "rights" are a bit confused.
Then why do my taxes pay for roads that you drive on and I don't?
I had a feeling the thread title might stir the pot.
Again, I'm bringing up the issue of responsibility and exploring the pros and cons etc. etc.
Also, since you have me so well pegged and would feel glee over my cancer and bankruptcy, I will say that I've also argued with my "very right wing" brother in favor of single payer.
Conservatives are very much in favor of independence and starting businesses and being self employed, yet so many who have chronic illnesses dare not cut themselves from employment by others precisely because of the insurance issue. There could be a lot of great potential inventors and business services that are in limbo because of not being able to purchase insurance privately if they have a pre existing condition. (my understanding is the pre existing clause IS something that will be retained?)
So yes, the idea of single payer IS compelling... maybe the government would have to start prioritizing? I don't know. Certainly I would want the child with a life threatening condition to be treated before the middle aged fat smoker if it came down to that.
p.s. the example I used is actually personal. My dad died of a heart attack when I was a little girl in large part because he was overweight and loved his menthol cigarettes. He didn't take care of his body. He was a fat smoker.
What sort of military do you expect to have if it's funded by 'charity' and not taxes?
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