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Old 01-25-2017, 03:33 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
My argument is that the EPA is not a charity organization doing altruistic favors. They are a governmental agency at the federal level entrusted and assigned to do a job.

They don't get a pass on that job when it is done incorrectly or even poorly.
Be that as it may, that isn't how our Congress and President are approaching this.

They do not care about how effective or competent the EPA is. They simply want it to have less authority to prevent firms from polluting, full stop.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:35 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,606,149 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
The U.S. justice system does not prevent environmental issues. That is not its function. Waiting for people to pollute and then suing is inadequate as a remedy and almost useless as a deterrent.

Mining firms declare bankruptcy. The judge can't do anything, and the legislature is too incompetent to prevent such shrirking of shareholder responsibility.
I agree with you , although I do realize stating it as you have is akin to saying the justice system does not prevent burglary.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:35 PM
 
Location: City Data Land
17,155 posts, read 12,962,522 times
Reputation: 33185
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myghost View Post
Whatever happened to "The Government works for, and answers to the people"?
That all disappeared on January 20, 2017 which just so Happens to be National Devotion to Donald Trump Day
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:35 PM
 
22,768 posts, read 30,733,597 times
Reputation: 14745
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
I was not suggesting it. It was a devil's advocate position.

Although I will admit, I winced when I read that you considered the feds trustworthy, lol.
It isn't that the feds are inherently more trustworthy, it is just a matter of incentives.

State legislators (and therefore state environmental authorities) have major incentives to let companies pollute. The Feds don't.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:43 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,606,149 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
Be that as it may, that isn't how our Congress and President are approaching this.

They do not care about how effective or competent the EPA is. They simply want it to have less authority to prevent firms from polluting, full stop.
I have a sincere hope that, that is not the case.
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:45 PM
 
Location: My House
34,938 posts, read 36,258,444 times
Reputation: 26552
Quote:
Originally Posted by fordtrucks View Post
That someone is finally reining in this out of control power hungry enviro fanatical bureaucracy!

Trump admin institutes media blackout for EPA, suspends social media activity | Fox News
Donald? Is that you???

__________________
When in doubt, check it out: FAQ
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:46 PM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
who said 'objective' ? i said 'effective'

You think it was the EPA responsible for most of the clean up and environment? You must love Nixon then. He was the one who decided to put all the environmental protection at the federal level in an easy sock puppet like form. Think 1970 is when environmentalism began?


Quote:
i have no idea what this is supposed to mean. On the surface it sounds really, really stupid, like you don't even know the basics of American government. i'm pretty sure you aren't stupid so I'm going to leave it to you to develop this point.
I know you are not stupid either. So I will put it another way. Do you see a problem with these federal agencies lacking independence from the ruling administration?

Quote:
It doesn't. The EPA isn't the reason we trade with China. the EPA isn't the reason we can't get China to sign a global warming treaty.

Regardless not all pollution is global in impact. Some of this stuff the EPA regulates is local/regional air, soil, and water.
It certainly is one reason why we may trade with China. The EPA can set standards such that competition with China is impossible. So we simply import from them and let them destroy the environment.

I am very concerned about the environment. In fact I am concerned so much so I would like more manufacturing here with more oversight on what is being done. I would also add import tariffs of our trading partners if they do not generally comply with our environmental and labor laws.

However in general why is the left so concerned about federal power at the administrative level now ? Where were they before?
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Old 01-25-2017, 03:48 PM
 
3,366 posts, read 1,606,149 times
Reputation: 1652
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
It isn't that the feds are inherently more trustworthy, it is just a matter of incentives.

State legislators (and therefore state environmental authorities) have major incentives to let companies pollute. The Feds don't.
Agreed. Which is why I believed the federal agency should be an oversite on each state agency, and yet not more than that. Macro vs micro management.
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Old 01-25-2017, 04:08 PM
 
20,718 posts, read 19,363,240 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
Agreed. Which is why I believed the federal agency should be an oversite on each state agency, and yet not more than that. Macro vs micro management.

How about instead of the EPA just "regulating", they simply send the information to the locals apt to be affected?
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Old 01-25-2017, 08:04 PM
 
Location: New York Area
35,064 posts, read 17,014,369 times
Reputation: 30213
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jimbo302 View Post
Agreed. Which is why I believed the federal agency should be an oversite on each state agency, and yet not more than that. Macro vs micro management.
I think that environmental regulation should be mostly on a federal level. Here in New York, the state seems to want its own policy on nuclear reactors (one is due for shutdown notwithstanding its location in a power-starved area), and on fracking (to ban it). Both are at tension with overall federal policy to encourage nuclear fuel as a way of producing electricity without greenhouse gases. Also it is yet another layer for businesses to work through.
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