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Old 12-15-2006, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 175,064 times
Reputation: 86

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continued...because it might be important to some people who care...

Cell phone usage is up 158%...freedom is on it's way...once again, Saddam never would have allowed that.

Iraq has an independent media (for the first time) that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations.

The Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of '04.

And it was stated that 70% of Iraqi people want us out of their country? Just curious as to where that figure came from.

I'm not necessarily in favor of the war, but I think it would be a worse situation if we just left.
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Old 12-15-2006, 09:48 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,696 posts, read 3,066,694 times
Reputation: 1535
Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
Well, Johnny, we only allow/promote genocide in countries we invade and occupy that have OIL in the ground. And we only send kids there to do the dirty work that are not affiliated with any of the rich republican war mongers in office, so their kids stay safe. We're not interested in genocide in places like Darfur, as it gives us no opportunity to practice our humanitiarian love and, besides, why waste our democracy in a place like that anyway?
Oooooohhhhhhhhhh.... now I get it, I think. Democracy is good when it's covered in oil? And when rich kids don't have to spread it? Did I get it right?
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Old 12-15-2006, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,696 posts, read 3,066,694 times
Reputation: 1535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbercuddles View Post
continued...because it might be important to some people who care...

Cell phone usage is up 158%...freedom is on it's way...once again, Saddam never would have allowed that.

Iraq has an independent media (for the first time) that consists of 75 radio stations, 180 newspapers and 10 television stations.

The Baghdad Stock Exchange opened in June of '04.

And it was stated that 70% of Iraqi people want us out of their country? Just curious as to where that figure came from.

I'm not necessarily in favor of the war, but I think it would be a worse situation if we just left.
The only number that matters is the estimated 655,000 Iraqis killed since the start of this occupation. That's disgusting.
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Old 12-15-2006, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 175,064 times
Reputation: 86
You may not believe it, but I'm actually here to discuss different views. I respect yours, but I'd prefer basic facts and maybe some opinions. I know it's not my world, but that's how I feel.

Please tell me why you think it was all about oil. Are the Iraqi's going to sign it over to us? Why haven't we benefitted from it so far, or have we?

The last I heard, the military recruits and people join on a volunteer basis. I don't think you can feasibly say that there are no rich kids in the military. People who join know the risks...similar to firefighters and police. It's their option...and I support them.
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Old 12-15-2006, 09:59 PM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 175,064 times
Reputation: 86
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
The only number that matters is the estimated 655,000 Iraqis killed since the start of this occupation. That's disgusting.
In your opinion...

In my opinion, the insurgents and terrorists are directly responsible for most Iraqi deaths.

I also forgot to mention the additional 400,000 children who died because of malnutrition and disease under Saddam's rule. To me, that's heartbreaking, also.

Last edited by Kimbercuddles; 12-15-2006 at 10:07 PM.. Reason: addition
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:06 PM
 
421 posts, read 245,273 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
The only number that matters is the estimated 655,000 Iraqis killed since the start of this occupation. That's disgusting.

Did you feel bad when Saddam killed his own people and raped and tortured them? Don't you think these people have a right to be free like us? It reminds me of these smug Europeans who are walking around free to do whatever they want and to criticize us. The reason they are free to do what they want is because of us. Just like these smart mouth American celebrities that make a bundle here and then go over to Europe to trash our country. I think they need to go live behind an Iron Curtain for awhile and then come back here. We take all of our freedoms for granted in this country because we don't know any better. I heard movin'on bragging about how her property values went up in Scottsdale. How about the govenment taking some of that and spread it around to maybe New Orleans or something? Why should she be making money while some of us are broke and losing money?

This is not an occupation, we are there helping the Iraqis try to build a new life. What's disgusting is the media only showing one side of the story and it's really not fair to these brave men and women over there who really believe in their mission.
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Old 12-15-2006, 10:08 PM
 
421 posts, read 245,273 times
Reputation: 66
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
Oooooohhhhhhhhhh.... now I get it, I think. Democracy is good when it's covered in oil? And when rich kids don't have to spread it? Did I get it right?
When are they going to start sharing some of this oil?
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Old 12-16-2006, 12:48 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,188,259 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbercuddles View Post
Interesting facts and I know that some people will say "who cares!" but I think it's important that people know. These facts are all verifiable on Department of Defense website.

There are more jobs in Iraq than ever...the government employs 1.2 million.

3100 schools have been renovated, 263 schools under construction and 38 new schools have been completed...

There are 5 police academies in Iraq that produce over 3500 new officers every 8 weeks...

There are more than 1100 building projects currently in progress...including the 364 schools, 67 public clinics, 15 hospitals, 83 rail stations, 22 oil facilities, 93 water facilities, 69 electrical facilities...

96% of Iraqi children under age 5 have received the first two series of polio vaccinations...never would have happened under Saddam.

4.3 million Iraqi children were enrolled in primary school by October of '05.
Your data is old, I suspect, at least by one year, I am guessing.

The Iraq report (which Bush is choosing to ignore) paints a different picture...

Quote:
Want to get depressed? Consider the options in Iraq

Friday, December 15, 2006

The Iraq Study Group report, released last week to much fanfare, makes for some truly depressing reading. What the report says is grim enough, but what the report implies is far more disturbing, because it suggests that the United States today may be incapable of conducting any serious or coherent foreign policy.
The report offers a stark assessment of the present condition of Iraq: "The situation in Iraq is grave and deteriorating. Violence is increasing in scope and lethality." In addition to the brutality and terrorism of the Sunni insurgency and Shiite militias, "criminality also makes daily life unbearable for many Iraqis."

The report continues: Iraq's economy is a mess. Vast numbers of people are displaced internally or have fled the country. Reconstruction is stalled. Several basic government services are being provided at prewar levels or below.

And if that were not enough, there's more: "Iraq's neighbors are doing little to help it, and some are undercutting its stability." The rest of the world is substantially indifferent to Iraq's fate, and international financial support for Iraqi reconstruction has been "tepid."

Although it makes for unpleasant reading, the report performs a crucial service in presenting an assessment of the current state of affairs in Iraq that cannot plausibly be dismissed as ill-informed or partisan. Recognition of the facts is the necessary prerequisite to acting rationally in any endeavor.

In light of these facts, the Report proposes 79 specific recommendations, relating to diplomacy, military policy, the policies of the Iraqi government, and the re-organization of American governmental agencies related to our missions in Iraq.
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Old 12-16-2006, 12:57 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,188,259 times
Reputation: 1457
And then there is this, with actual stories of actual people living in that hell hole...

Quote:

IRAQ
'Today Is Better Than Tomorrow'
Web | Dec 14, 2006

I've long since abandoned asking myself the question: How much worse can it get in Iraq? My Iraqi friends and colleagues tell me that one of the more popular sayings in Baghdad nowadays is the above.

DAHR JAMAIL

The situation in Iraq has reached such a point of degradation and danger that I've been unable to return to report -- as I did from 2003 to 2005 -- from the front lines of daily life. Instead, in these last months, I have found myself in a supportive role, facilitating the work of some of my former sources, who remain in their own war-torn land, to tell their hair-raising tales of the new Iraq. While relying on my Iraqi colleagues to report the news, which we then publish at Inter Press Service and my website, I continue to receive emails from others in Iraq, civilian and soldier alike.

I thought I might just give you a taste of the sort of private communications I read every day. Take my primary interpreter during my eight months in Iraq, Abu Talat. He was finally forced, like hundreds of thousands of his fellow Iraqis, to flee to a neighboring country due to the nightmarish security situation in Baghdad. Without a regular income, he struggled even to pay the rent for an apartment in a Syrian city, and finally had little choice but to return to Baghdad to sell what was left of his belongings. On November 18th, he wrote me from there:

"I am trying to sell my car. However, prices have plummeted so low that there is barely any active automobile dealing here, or any other marketing for that matter…Life ends at around 2-3 p.m., at which point Baghdad changes into a city of horror. The sounds of mortars and clashes erupt all through the night. (Two explosions just rumbled nearby, but we can't tell the exact location.)"
The next day he wrote:

"Today, while I was arranging for the car to be sold at the highest price I could find, explosions burst almost 50 meters from the place where I was standing. I was forced to hide under the car I was selling for over 2 hours. There were ongoing clashes between the Iraqi Army and resistance fighters in broad daylight in the middle of the capital!"
Even from semi-independent, Kurdish-controlled northern Iraq, often described as the most peaceful and prosperous region in the country, the news I get is bleak. A November 28th email from a Kurdish friend (who is also a U.S. citizen) went this way:

"It is worse than ever. The problem is that our U.S. government and the Iraqi ‘Government' tell the world that things are improving here when they are not. All of the rebuilding bull crap is nothing but a **** that is worse than the oil-for-food program [of the post-Gulf War I years]. We have ONE hour of electricity a day now. I have power to turn on some lights and my computer by way of a little generator that I hooked up to my office today. A gallon of gas costs over $4 now, when the salary of an engineer is less than $200 a MONTH."
Terrible as life is when Iraqis across the country find themselves essentially camping out in their own homes with few or no basic services, it pales in comparison to life in Baghdad, the country's capital and home to nearly one quarter of its population. A friend of mine, who works there as a freelance cameraman, sent me this grim summary a couple of weeks ago: "Life here in Iraq has become impossible because of the militias, sectarian violence, and the occupation [U.S.] forces. Every day we see the dead bodies near our homes which have been killed by militias. We watch how the U.S. troops see these dead bodies and… do nothing to stop this violence.

"I hope I can show you how the dogs have started eating the dead bodies which lie in the streets of Baghdad now. I filmed one of the dead bodies while there was a dog eating on it. The U.S. troops and Iraqi police leave the dead bodies in the streets for one or two days… I think they intend to do this because they want everyone, including the children, to see this. Three days ago my young son saw some of the Shia militia as they killed an innocent Iraqi in front of his eyes just near his school.

"Oh Dahr, I don't know what to say about my wounded country. Every Iraqi wants to bomb himself because of this **** life. Now Iraq is nothing like it was when you were here last, as bad as it was then. It has become very difficult to find someone who smiles. Everyone is sad and crying. This is true and this is our life now.
Those Iraqis are just big, whiny cry babies and not at all grateful for our liberation. Just what IS their problem?

More first hand accounts of life in Iraq, shared by real Iraqis, who actually live it, can be found at this link...

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp...hrjamail&sid=1
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Old 12-16-2006, 01:02 AM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,188,259 times
Reputation: 1457
Quote:
Originally Posted by sweattea View Post
When are they going to start sharing some of this oil?
Spoken like a true republican. What...that big SUV or monster truck gobbling up your dollars? Aww, that is too bad.
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