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Old 12-04-2006, 01:45 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,165,513 times
Reputation: 1452

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Quote:
Originally Posted by the dufferz View Post
So, movin'on, I am not interested in debate on this issue based on the theories of some nut cakes and odd balls or low level miltary personel who heard some thing that after the fact sounded weird etc. etc. We have yet to hear even one substative fact from one reliable source. Not one. So, until someone pulls the thread that unravels this whole tangled web, it's not even worth talking about for me.
Does the opinion of two prominent European politicians qualify as reliable, especially if one of them held the position of German Minister (equivalent to a secretary of state over here). They don't buy the official version. In fact, you can watch it here...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...52561914055825

It's only 16 minutes. One thing that is good about this video is that it outlines PNAC's vision for reshaping the Middle East and how this could have come about. If people can't do videos online, I'll scrounge up a transcript.

BTW, I gave you two other people that are not exactly slouches -- Robert Bowman and David Ray Griffin. All one has to do is to google on 911 scholars for truth and you'll find more people of credibility than you can imagine who do not buy the official version. Here is a partial listing...

Virginia Abernethy (FM)

Prof. Psychiatry, Vanderbilt University (ret.)
Michael M. Andregg (FM)

Domestic intelligence, Justice and Peace Studies, St. Thomas University, St. Paul, MN
Mark Bamberger, Ph.D. (FM)

Professor of Geology and Environmental Sciences, Miami University and Capital University
Kevin Barrett (FM)

Folklore, UW-Madison; Director, Khidria, Inc.; Founding Member, Muslim-Jewish-Christian Alliance for 9/11 Truth, mujca.com
Philip J. Berg, Esq. (FM)

Attorney at Law, Former Deputy Attorney General, former candidate for Governor, Lt. Governor, and U.S. Senate from Pennsylvania, whose web site, 911forthetruth.com, covers the RICO lawsuit that is pending against Bush, Cheney and 53 other Defendants in Federal Court, Southern District of New York
Tracy Blevins (FM)

Bioengineering, Rice University
Robert M. Bowman (FM)

Former Director of the U.S. "Star Wars" Space Defense Program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, and a former Air Force Lieutenant Colonel with 101 combat missions
Robert S. Boyer (FM)

Philosophy; Mathematics; Computer Science; University of Texas, Austin
Clare Brandabur (FM)

Assistant Professor of English Literature at Dogus University in Istanbul
Joseph G. Buchman, Ph.D. (FM)

Associate Professor of Marketing, Adams State College
Andreas von Buelow (FM)

Former assistant German defense minister, director of the German Secret Service, minister for research and technology, and member of Parliament for 25 years
Larry Burk (FM)

Radiology, Medical hypnosis
Don Bustion (FM)

Attorney, Adjunct Professor, Southern Arkansas University
John Bylsma (FM)

French language and culture
Harriet Cianci (FM)

Tunxis Community College, CT
William A. Cook (FM)

Professor of English, University of La Verne, Author of "Tracking Deception: Bush Mid-East Policy"
Richard Curtis (FM)

Dr. Curtis is an Adjunct Professor of Philosophy at several Seattle area colleges.
A. K. Dewdney (FM)

Mathematician, Computer Scientist, University of Western Ontario, physics911.net/spine.htm
Joseph Diaferia (FM)

Political Science and History, State University and City University, New York
Albert Dragstedt (FM)

Classics and Philosophy, St. Mary's College, Oakland, CA
Mike Earl-Taylor (FM)

Criminal Profiling, Investigative and Forensic Psychology, Rhodes University, South Africa
Ted Elden (FM)

Architect, Communicator
James H. Fetzer (FM)

Distinguished McKnight University Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota, Duluth, a former Marine Corps officer, author or editor of more than 20 books, and co-chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:12 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,165,513 times
Reputation: 1452
Oh boy, I just stumbled on this. This should address concerns over high-level officials. To link to the actual people, you have to go to the site, but here is what to expect...

HIGH-LEVEL OFFICIALS
Current and former high-level U.S. officials have recently and publicly stated that the 9/11 attack was not as it seemed.

For example:
Current U.S. Republican Congressman, who is a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and who served six years as the Chairman of the Military Research and Development Subcommittee, has shown that the U.S. tracked hijackers before 9/11, is open to hearing information about explosives in the Twin Towers, and is open to the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job

Current U.S. Senator states "The two questions that the congress will not ask . . . is why did 9/11 happen on George Bush's watch when he had clear warnings that it was going to happen? Why did they allow it to happen?"

Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan said that the official story of 9/11 is "the dog that doesn't hunt" (if you suspect he is a closet liberal, take a look at his bio)

Former director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, who was a senior air force colonel who flew 101 combat missions, and who is a Catholic Archbishop stated that 9/11 was an inside job (he also said "If our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. [T]hat is treason")

Former 20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer stated that "9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war", and it was probably an inside job (see Customer Review dated October 7, 2006).

Former high-ranking official for George W. Bush concluded that 9/11 was an inside job

Former high-ranking Reagan official and very influential conservative finds the official story about 9/11 "flimsy and unbelievable"

Former Two-Star general questions the attack on the Pentagon

Former Air Force Colonel and key Pentagon official finds various aspects of 9/11 suspicious

Current U.S. Congresswoman, former senior CIA analyst, former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter, former US Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq, former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism, and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (as well as a who's who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11

Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of the current administration, and that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting" investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath

Former FBI translator, who the Department of Justice's Inspector General and several senators have called extremely credible (free subscription required), said "If they were to do real investigations we would see several significant high level criminal prosecutions in this country. And that is something that they are not going to let out. And, believe me; they will do everything to cover this up". She also is leaning towards the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job

A 28-year career CIA official says 9/11 was an inside job

Former ambassador to Iraq is not satisfied with the official story

Many officials from allied governments have also questioned 9/11:
Statements by former German Defense Minister and current member of British Parliament

Statement by former Canadian Minister of Defense

Statements of two former MI5 (British intelligence) agents (19 minutes into video)

Statement of a high-ranking general and the former chief of NATO regarding bombs in the Twin Towers (in Danish)

Statement by the commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force; and see also statement of former chief of staff of the Russian armed forces

And see this small and easy-to-read website for additional high-level officials.

-----------------------------------

This should satisfy anyone who doubts that people "in-the-know" do not go along with the official version. What a great site!

http ://911proof.com/7.html
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 639,342 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
Does the opinion of two prominent European politicians qualify as reliable, especially if one of them held the position of German Minister (equivalent to a secretary of state over here). They don't buy the official version. In fact, you can watch it here...

[...]

Distinguished McKnight University Professor of Philosophy at the University of Minnesota, Duluth, a former Marine Corps officer, author or editor of more than 20 books, and co-chair of Scholars for 9/11 Truth
You ask, does the opinion of two prominent European politicians qualify as reliable, especially if one of them held the position of German Minister matter?
No. Did you not read my post all of the way through?

You don't get it. Give me one PARTICIPANT that was involved who is telling the story your way. Everything else you pump out there is SPECULATION and is a waste of time because for every report you worship, there are equal numbers of reports that debunk the junk.

So, you can copy and paste names of "distinguished" people all day long, but the proof is in the pudding, but so far, the key ingredient is missing.

So, if you want tackle what I am showing as the first hurdle in overcoming the doubt, what I believe as the difinitive factor in my belief that this was not a "inside job" then, as you put it in your early post:

Quote:
..."bring it on."

Last edited by Yac; 12-04-2006 at 03:51 PM..
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:41 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 639,342 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by movin'on View Post
How would I know and why would I care? His death has not shaped our foreign policy, nor did 1000s upon 1000s lose, or will lose, their lives over him, rather an official version which isn't even true. Again, 85% of Americans aren't buying it as packaged, so I am NOT in the minority.
Sigh. You just don't get it. Translation: the conspiracy theories about Jimmy Hoffa as are rediculous as the 911 theories. This small conspiracy cannot be proven without someone coming forward and saying where he is, then digging him up and then doing DNA testing. So goes the 9-11 theories, and the need to have proof from someone who did it, not just writes their own translation of what they want to believe happened.

At one time in world history Movin'on, 99.9% of the world believed that the earth was flat. Did that make it flat? All of the scientist of the day said so, so everybody believed them.

It was one man who did something remarkable. He proved that the earth was round. He proved everybody was wrong. He did not do this by writing letters to everybody saying "the earth is round, believe me!"

He actually sailed, and in the end physically and difinitively proved his point. Maybe you should set sail and find that one person who will say "yes, movin'on, I set those explosives, I flew that figher jet with the missile, I was at Norad, and here is my proof." Until then, why bother quoting all of those people who frankly DO NOT KNOW. It's a waste of time.
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Old 12-04-2006, 02:44 PM
 
Location: Phoenix metro
20,005 posts, read 68,037,939 times
Reputation: 10063
For example:
Current U.S. Republican Congressman, who is a senior member of the House Armed Services Committee, and who served six years as the Chairman of the Military Research and Development Subcommittee, has shown that the U.S. tracked hijackers before 9/11, is open to hearing information about explosives in the Twin Towers, and is open to the possibility that 9/11 was an inside job

Current U.S. Senator states "The two questions that the congress will not ask . . . is why did 9/11 happen on George Bush's watch when he had clear warnings that it was going to happen? Why did they allow it to happen?"

Deputy Assistant Secretary of Defense under President Ronald Reagan said that the official story of 9/11 is "the dog that doesn't hunt" (if you suspect he is a closet liberal, take a look at his bio)

Former director of the U.S. "Star Wars" space defense program in both Republican and Democratic administrations, who was a senior air force colonel who flew 101 combat missions, and who is a Catholic Archbishop stated that 9/11 was an inside job (he also said "If our government had merely done nothing, and allowed normal procedures to happen on that morning of 9/11, the twin towers would still be standing, and thousands of dead Americans would still be alive. [T]hat is treason")

Former 20-year Marine Corps infantry and intelligence officer, the second-ranking civilian in U.S. Marine Corps Intelligence, and former CIA clandestine services case officer stated that "9/11 was at a minimum allowed to happen as a pretext for war", and it was probably an inside job (see Customer Review dated October 7, 2006).

Former high-ranking official for George W. Bush concluded that 9/11 was an inside job

Former high-ranking Reagan official and very influential conservative finds the official story about 9/11 "flimsy and unbelievable"

Former Two-Star general questions the attack on the Pentagon

Former Air Force Colonel and key Pentagon official finds various aspects of 9/11 suspicious

Current U.S. Congresswoman, former senior CIA analyst, former Deputy Secretary for Intelligence and Warning under Nixon, Ford, and Carter, former US Ambassador and Chief of Mission to Iraq, former Deputy Director to the White House Task Force on Terrorism, and former US Department of State Foreign Service Officer (as well as a who's who of liberals and independents) jointly call for a new investigation into 9/11

Pentagon Papers whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg said that some of the claims concerning government involvement in 9/11 are credible, that "very serious questions have been raised about what they [U.S. government officials] knew beforehand and how much involvement there might have been", that engineering 9/11 would not be humanly or psychologically beyond the scope of the current administration, and that there's enough evidence to justify a new, "hard-hitting" investigation into 9/11 with subpoenas and testimony taken under oath

Former FBI translator, who the Department of Justice's Inspector General and several senators have called extremely credible (free subscription required), said "If they were to do real investigations we would see several significant high level criminal prosecutions in this country. And that is something that they are not going to let out. And, believe me; they will do everything to cover this up". She also is leaning towards the conclusion that 9/11 was an inside job

A 28-year career CIA official says 9/11 was an inside job

Former ambassador to Iraq is not satisfied with the official story

Many officials from allied governments have also questioned 9/11:
Statements by former German Defense Minister and current member of British Parliament

Statement by former Canadian Minister of Defense

Statements of two former MI5 (British intelligence) agents (19 minutes into video)

Statement of a high-ranking general and the former chief of NATO regarding bombs in the Twin Towers (in Danish)

Statement by the commander-in-chief of the Russian Air Force; and see also statement of former chief of staff of the Russian armed forces

And see this small and easy-to-read website for additional high-level officials.

-----------------------------------

This should satisfy anyone who doubts that people "in-the-know" do not go along with the official version. What a great site!

http ://911proof.com/7.html[/quote]

Wow, of all these "resources", Ive yet to see one name named other than a notorious "whistleblower". Got any names for these people may I ask? Any Joe Schmoe can say "a former CIA insider said this and said that" and blah, blah, blah. We need some names to back this up or else its just speculation. And dont say you cant find names, anyone who "goes public" with this stuff, especially high ranking officials, will have names associated with statements.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:01 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,165,513 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by the dufferz View Post
So, if you want tackle what I am showing as the first hurdle in overcoming the doubt, what I believe as the difinitive factor in my belief that this was not a "inside job" then, as you put it in your early post:
There is no conclusive proof, for the official version or otherwise. There are simply conspiracy theories that make sense and those that make less sense, and your conspiracy theory is laughable and makes far less sense, all things considered. Where is your evidence to support your conspiracy theory, other than what you've been told by the media and government? You accept the official version without question and never give it a second thought. Well, I am sorry but that is not my style, as there are too many unanswered questions and things don't add up. All of those scholars and high-level officials agree with me.

Maybe this can illustrate what I am getting at...

Quote:
Astute observers of history are aware that for every notable event there will usually be at least one ,often several wild conspiracy theories which spring up around it. Space aliens replaced Nixon with a clone" etc,etc. The bigger the event, the more ridiculous and more numerous are the fanciful rantings which circulate in relation to it.

So its hardly surprising that the events of Sept 11 2001 have spawned their fair share of these ludicrous fairy tales.

One of the wilder stories circulating about Sept 11, and one that has attracted something of a cult following amongst conspiracy buffs is that it was carried out by 19 fanatical Arab hijackers, masterminded by an evil genius named Osama bin Laden, with no apparent motivation other than that they "hate our freedoms."

Never a group of people to be bothered by facts, the perpetrators of this cartoon fantasy have constructed an elaborately woven web of delusions and unsubstantiated hearsay in order to promote this garbage across the internet and the media to the extent that a number of otherwise rational people have actually fallen under its spell.

These crackpots even contend that the extremist Bush
regime was caught unawares by the attacks, had no hand in organizing them, and actually would have stopped them if it had been able. Blindly ignoring the stand down of the US air-force, the insider trading on airline stocks - linked to the CIA, the complicit behavior of Bush on the morning of the attacks, the controlled demolition of the WTC, the firing of a missile into the Pentagon and a host of other documented proofs that the Bush regime was behind the attacks, the conspiracy theorists stick doggedly to a silly story about 19 Arab hijackers somehow managing to commandeer 4 planes simultaneously and fly them around US airspace for nearly 2 hours ,crashing them into important buildings, without the US intelligence services having any idea that it was coming, and without the Air Force knowing what to do.

"Uh, how come their passports survived fiery crashes that completely incinerated the planes and all the passengers? " The answer of course is that its just one of those strange co-incidences, those little quirks of fate that do happen from time to time. You know, like the same person winning the lottery four weeks in a row. The odds are astronomical, but these things do happen...

Having for the sake of amusement, allowed them to get away with with the silly story of the 19 invisible Arabs, we move on to the question of how they are supposed to have taken over the planes.

Hijacking a plane is not an easy thing to do. Hijacking it without the pilot being able to alert ground control is near impossible. The pilot has only to punch in a four digit code to alert ground control to a hijacking. Unconcerned with the awkward question of plausibility, the conspiracy buffs maintain that on that Sept 11, the invisible hijackers took over the plane but somehow took control of the plane without the crew first getting a chance to punch in the hijacking code. Not just on one plane, but on all four.

So now that our incredibly lucky hijackers have taken control of the planes, all four pilots fly them with breath taking skill and certainty to their fiery end, all four pilots unflinching in their steely resolve for a swift meeting with Allah. Apart from their psychotic hatred of "our freedoms" , it was their fanatical devotion to Islam which enabled them to summon up the iron will to do this. Which is strange, because according to another piece of hearsay peddled by the conspiracy buffs, these guys actually went out drinking and womanizing the night before their great martyrdom, even leaving their Korans in the bar -really impeccable Islamic behavior
You get my drift here, right? There is much more, but my point is valid. That is how I view your conspiracy theory. And make no mistake, there was a conspiracy here. Just who was involved is what I question.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:11 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,165,513 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by the dufferz View Post
Sigh. You just don't get it. Translation: the conspiracy theories about Jimmy Hoffa as are rediculous as the 911 theories. This small conspiracy cannot be proven without someone coming forward and saying where he is, then digging him up and then doing DNA testing. So goes the 9-11 theories, and the need to have proof from someone who did it, not just writes their own translation of what they want to believe happened.

At one time in world history Movin'on, 99.9% of the world believed that the earth was flat. Did that make it flat? All of the scientist of the day said so, so everybody believed them.

It was one man who did something remarkable. He proved that the earth was round. He proved everybody was wrong. He did not do this by writing letters to everybody saying "the earth is round, believe me!"

He actually sailed, and in the end physically and difinitively proved his point. Maybe you should set sail and find that one person who will say "yes, movin'on, I set those explosives, I flew that figher jet with the missile, I was at Norad, and here is my proof." Until then, why bother quoting all of those people who frankly DO NOT KNOW. It's a waste of time.
I don't think it's a waste of time, but since you do, why participate in this thread? I am grateful to the people who have taken their time to critically look at this situation and raise questions. Such is the nature (or was the nature) of being an American.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:14 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,165,513 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve-o View Post

This should satisfy anyone who doubts that people "in-the-know" do not go along with the official version. What a great site!

http ://911proof.com/7.html
Quote:
Wow, of all these "resources", Ive yet to see one name named other than a notorious "whistleblower". Got any names for these people may I ask? Any Joe Schmoe can say "a former CIA insider said this and said that" and blah, blah, blah. We need some names to back this up or else its just speculation. And dont say you cant find names, anyone who "goes public" with this stuff, especially high ranking officials, will have names associated with statements.
As I said in my post, you have to go to the link for the names. Once you click on the highlighted blue portion, you are taken to the person and quote.

Wow, it's good to know the naysayers take the time to actually check out the resources I provide.
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:20 PM
 
11,590 posts, read 17,544,082 times
Reputation: 17281
Dude do you start a new thread every week about these 911 conspiracy theories? Give us a break, there is already at least 2 active threads on this subject in this forum (started by you).
Isn't there like a "lunatic fringe" forum out on the internet you can post to with UFO theories, Bigfoot, Elvis sightings, and 911 conspiracy theories and compare notes with the tin foil hat crowd?
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Old 12-04-2006, 03:36 PM
 
4,247 posts, read 9,165,513 times
Reputation: 1452
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dd714 View Post
Dude do you start a new thread every week about these 911 conspiracy theories? Give us a break, there is already at least 2 active threads on this subject in this forum (started by you).
Isn't there like a "lunatic fringe" forum out on the internet you can post to with UFO theories, Bigfoot, Elvis sightings, and 911 conspiracy theories and compare notes with the tin foil hat crowd?
It's Dudette My other thread was hijacked and I didn't have the heart to say anything about it.

If the administrators or moderators do not want me posting on this, I will certainly comply with their wishes. After all, I am a guest here and appreciate the opportunity to visit and participate in this forum.

I am sorry these threads offend you. Like I said, I am happy to abide by what the owners of the forum want.
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