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Old 12-05-2006, 07:16 PM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,696 posts, read 3,057,536 times
Reputation: 1535

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nea1 View Post
People that honestly believe that people in our government would plan this and kill thousands of innocent people and then actually try to cover it up, need help.
Have you read anything about Operation Northwoods? If you did, you wouldn't dismiss such a notion so easily.

Even though I don't appreciate being called "retarded", or nuts by some on this thread because I am questioning, I am enjoying this thread. Even though I don't agree with posters like Dufferz right now, I certainly respect anyone who has done his/her homework and drawn their own conclusions. I definitely hope that you guys and gals are proven right. I hate how cynical my stances are at this point. I really do want to trust my government and feel comfortable taking their word at face value.

What I can't understand, though, is that there are so many more people (not you, Nea1, but people in general) who say they are cynical of government, don't trust politicians, and think that regardless of party, "they're all the same"- they are all about money and serving their own special interest groups. That is why in most elections, voter apathy is such a persistent issue. Yet, when major events happen that demand accountability, so many are willing to believe whatever they are told by those same supposedly untrustworthy politicians. It doesn't make any sense to me.

Last edited by mb919; 12-05-2006 at 07:17 PM.. Reason: clarity
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Old 12-05-2006, 11:48 PM
 
919 posts, read 1,668,417 times
Reputation: 478
It doesnt appear that 85% of everybody on here believes there was a cover up or conspiricy. I think that was a misstatement. I know what i saw and I also know things about explosives,it was not a goverment plot. maybe it was a plot by the Clintons to discredit Bush so Hillary could become Queen, I meant President.
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:12 AM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 637,504 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
Have you read anything about Operation Northwoods? If you did, you wouldn't dismiss such a notion so easily.

Even though I don't appreciate being called "retarded", or nuts by some on this thread because I am questioning, I am enjoying this thread. Even though I don't agree with posters like Dufferz right now, I certainly respect anyone who has done his/her homework and drawn their own conclusions. I definitely hope that you guys and gals are proven right. I hate how cynical my stances are at this point. I really do want to trust my government and feel comfortable taking their word at face value.

What I can't understand, though, is that there are so many more people (not you, Nea1, but people in general) who say they are cynical of government, don't trust politicians, and think that regardless of party, "they're all the same"- they are all about money and serving their own special interest groups. That is why in most elections, voter apathy is such a persistent issue. Yet, when major events happen that demand accountability, so many are willing to believe whatever they are told by those same supposedly untrustworthy politicians. It doesn't make any sense to me.
As a conservative I don't have a lot of trust in government becuase the do so many things very badly. If proof comes in that it was our government who was behind this, then I will be first in line behind you and Movin'on in demanding the execution of anyone who did this to the American People.

I just got done reading the full manuscript for Operation Northwood. This is CIA and covert operations at their ugliest. Once again, American Government doing things very badly. I however will point out very strongly, that if you read the document, you will find that this plan did not propose actually killing one single American. If it fact was a plan for several "slight of hands" where Americans would believe that people died due to the Cuban's.

There is little to compare between that and what we know is 100% confirmation of 3,000 people losing their lives on 9-11.
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Old 12-06-2006, 12:22 AM
 
Location: Navarre, Florida
327 posts, read 173,669 times
Reputation: 86
Here is my opinion in a nutshell...I think people have to be extremely careful as to what information they decide to accept as facts or even possible facts. The internet has been wonderful in some aspects, however, there are so many things that are total falsehoods. I've been caught up in this trap a couple of times and I have to go back to my common sense thinking. Much like Dufferz stated...there is no possible way that so many people would be able to keep a secret of that magnitude...it makes sense to me. Secondly, WHY would our government do that? How would it have benefitted the government? Surely there must be something HUGE that would have been in it for them, yet I cannot come up with a good reason for doing something like that. So, basically, you're saying that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who really don't give a rat's butt about our country and the people in it, who are totally untrustworthy and have absolutely no compassion or consideration for their fellow Americans? I, for one, am not able to fathom that...no matter if there are a few corrupt politicians in either party.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:44 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,696 posts, read 3,057,536 times
Reputation: 1535
Quote:
Originally Posted by the dufferz View Post
As a conservative I don't have a lot of trust in government becuase the do so many things very badly. If proof comes in that it was our government who was behind this, then I will be first in line behind you and Movin'on in demanding the execution of anyone who did this to the American People.

I just got done reading the full manuscript for Operation Northwood. This is CIA and covert operations at their ugliest. Once again, American Government doing things very badly. I however will point out very strongly, that if you read the document, you will find that this plan did not propose actually killing one single American. If it fact was a plan for several "slight of hands" where Americans would believe that people died due to the Cuban's.

There is little to compare between that and what we know is 100% confirmation of 3,000 people losing their lives on 9-11.
Whenever you run a false flag operation, you run the risk of unintended consequences. While the intent to kill wasn't there, there was still major deception in place, and the war that could/probably would have come from that would have resulted in needless deaths.

Your take on 9/11 is sensible, and it's one that I WANT to believe. I guess I'm just even more skeptical than you.
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Old 12-06-2006, 04:54 AM
 
Location: Tucson, AZ
1,696 posts, read 3,057,536 times
Reputation: 1535
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kimbercuddles View Post
Here is my opinion in a nutshell...I think people have to be extremely careful as to what information they decide to accept as facts or even possible facts. The internet has been wonderful in some aspects, however, there are so many things that are total falsehoods. I've been caught up in this trap a couple of times and I have to go back to my common sense thinking. Much like Dufferz stated...there is no possible way that so many people would be able to keep a secret of that magnitude...it makes sense to me. Secondly, WHY would our government do that? How would it have benefitted the government? Surely there must be something HUGE that would have been in it for them, yet I cannot come up with a good reason for doing something like that. So, basically, you're saying that there are hundreds, if not thousands of people who really don't give a rat's butt about our country and the people in it, who are totally untrustworthy and have absolutely no compassion or consideration for their fellow Americans? I, for one, am not able to fathom that...no matter if there are a few corrupt politicians in either party.
You are right in that we all have to be careful of what we accept as fact. I haven't completely accepted any "conspiracy theory" material as fact- at this point though I do consider it stuff to consider. Just like I haven't accepted the government's story as fact, either.

I think how it could be kept under wraps is that either some (or even all) the people involved have blackmail-able stuff that is being held over their heads, or there is simply the threat of outright assassination should anyone's lips get too loose. Also, I'm not sure there are all that many Americans that would have been behind it- I think if there were Americans involved, they were relatively few but very well-placed. And I do think that there are many neocons that put self-interest above America- they see America not as a great country, but just something else to be exploited for personal gain.

The "what is there to gain?" question to me is Iraq. The attempt to conflate Saddam and 9/11 to me was disingenuous to the point of being bizarre. I am of the opinion that Bush wanted his hands on Iraq since day one of his presidency, except he knew that to invade a sovereign nation (even one with such a despicable leader) without provocation and that posed no direct threat to us would have brought about outrage abroad and at home, and even he knew better than to try it. Looking back on the last five years, if there was no 9/11, going into Iraq would have been even harder to justify than it is anyway.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,698,771 times
Reputation: 2086
Quote:
Originally Posted by kdizzle View Post
I think the conspiracy believers on this post need to watch the recent South Park episode about the 9/11 conspiracy. I think the boys were right--1/4 of the population is retarded!
Oh that made my day!!! I laughed so hard coffee spit out, loved it and so true!!
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:59 AM
 
Location: Colorado
10,017 posts, read 16,698,771 times
Reputation: 2086
I do believe the only thing the governement is guilty of is not paying attention. they heard and knew something was up but had the cant touch us we are the US mentality, so yes they are partly responsible for 9/11 but not in the way that a few mention. I am sorry but our governemnet just isnt that bright to pull that off, nor do I truely believe that all are that evil and heartless (few maybe) which is what you would have to be to even concieve of that plan.
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Old 12-06-2006, 05:48 PM
 
Location: NOVA - retiring to OKlahoma
569 posts, read 1,119,375 times
Reputation: 353
Thumbs down It's ALL BULL S**T!!

I will say this to the conspiracy theorists that think the Pentagon was hit by a missile and not a plane.

I live in Arlington, VA approximately 4 miles from the Pentagon. I also am a police officer in Washington, D.C. On 09/11 after seeing the news reports about the twin towers, I immediately started heading for work knowing the the US Capitol Building is the #1 target in the world for terrorists. As I was heading in I saw the plane descending at an altitude of about 500 ft before I lost sight of it behind the Sheraton National hotel on Columbia Pike. While I didn't actually see the impact due to the hotel, I DID HEAR IT!! I was less than 1/2 mile away at the time! In less than a minute I was on I395 just south east of the Pentagon and SAW THE FLAMES AND SMOKE!!

The "conspiracy theorists" that think that 09/11 was an inside job are dillusional and need to seek professional help.

That is all I will say about it because I will not waste anymore of my time on this subject! I apologize if you saw this post in another thread but I just saw this one.
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Old 12-06-2006, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Bothell, Washington
454 posts, read 637,504 times
Reputation: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by mb919 View Post
Whenever you run a false flag operation, you run the risk of unintended consequences. While the intent to kill wasn't there, there was still major deception in place, and the war that could/probably would have come from that would have resulted in needless deaths.

Your take on 9/11 is sensible, and it's one that I WANT to believe. I guess I'm just even more skeptical than you.
Well I think we have arrived at a point where we can agree. Northwood was a recipe for disaster, glad it did not go into effect. Keep on being skeptical, that's a good thing as long as you keep your feet on the ground and your head out of the clouds (or away from the mother ship), where so many have already gone.
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