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Old 01-27-2017, 03:22 PM
 
17,752 posts, read 15,597,453 times
Reputation: 6391

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Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Are you seriously suggesting the EPA simply inform people when there's pollution going on in their backyards and do nothing about it? You think a power plant or refinery or mine is going to then stop polluting out of the goodness of its heart?

Yeah, I am. I tend to dislike useless Federal agencies and prefer to leave power to the state. However I have no problem with Federal agencies being informative and alerting residents to roque local governments. I may suggest some teeth in the EPA when a river flows into another state . After all, that is what the federal government is for , resolving interstate issues. Would you prefer we have a Tzar and a federal agent assigned to to you personally? Are you flossing after meals? How are your bowel movements. Tell your agent if you have the gravels.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:23 PM
 
4,065 posts, read 7,741,541 times
Reputation: 5653
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
I am saying that federal officials who pass regulations are not beholden to voters, thus their tenure usually outlives the Congresscritters' terms who passed the initial law in the first place.

That idea is the retarded one.
Yep. Politicians come and go, but bureaucracy stays forever. You can't vote them out like you can with politicians.

Trump tries to reduce the size of the Fed through attrition. The ones who are retiring won't be replaced. Those still working might be asked to do a little more. No one is being laid off or fired. Those government employee slackers still work and collect their fat check and retire with a fat pension. But those union worker lazy bums are already whining.

While Trump is at it, he should get rid of the DHS and TSA too if he is serious about cutting government waste.. DHS isn't doing anything that the FBI wasn't already doing. TSA isn't doing anything that airport security wasn't already doing.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:27 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,936 posts, read 22,206,840 times
Reputation: 9020
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Yeah, I am. I tend to dislike useless Federal agencies and prefer to leave power to the state. However I have no problem with Federal agencies being informative and alerting residents to roque local governments. I may suggest some teeth in the EPA when a river flows into another state . After all, that is what the federal government is for , resolving interstate issues. Would you prefer we have a Tzar and a federal agent assigned to to you personally? Are you flossing after meals? How are your bowel movements. Tell your agent if you have the gravels.
https://archive.epa.gov/epa/aboutepa...l-tragedy.html

Number of lives saved by U.S. Clean Air Act continues to grow: Opponents trying to repeal protections
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:28 PM
 
22,769 posts, read 26,132,273 times
Reputation: 14556
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
BP dumps mercury in lake - Chicago Tribune

Although the federal government ordered states more than a decade ago to dramatically limit mercury discharges into the Great Lakes, the BP refinery in northwest Indiana will be allowed to continue pouring small amounts of the toxic metal into Lake Michigan for at least another five years.A little-noticed exemption in BP's controversial new state water permit gives the oil company until 2012 to meet strict federal limits on mercury discharges. In documents, Indiana regulators predict the refinery won't be able to comply and will ask to continue polluting after that date.

There is that behind the scenes crap again.
The refinery in question was given the exemption by Indiana state regulators. The rationale was job creation.

Per the Tribune, the refinery's discharges fell below the EPA's threshold for whatever that material was. There was no special deal with the EPA, it just didn't have high standards at that time for that type of discharge. (mid-2000's I believe)

Presidents and Congress both have far too much influence on the EPA's scientific decisions, but like I've said before, they have to be accountable to someone.

Giving the federal environmental regulators less money, less authority, and less employees is not going to make these outcomes any better.

Quote:
Prodded by Congress, the EPA moved during the 1990s to virtually eliminate direct mercury discharges into the lakes.

Which I might add, George W. Bush ordered coal fired power plants, the major contributor of mercury discharges, exempt from the rules.


Quote:
Why do we need to prod a federal agency?
Normally you don't. In fact this is the polar opposite of the complaints being made by the people wanting to gut it.

However, if you want me to have some explanation for that quote, I need context, and where it came from.

Quote:
why can't Congress run it? Nobody seemed to give a crap about Obama's power grab?


Former EPA Climate Adviser Rips Obama Over Environmental Regulations | Mother Jones
Her piece points to the White House Office of Management of Budget —and its Office of Information and Regulatory Affairs (OIRA) in particular—as the place where tough regulations go to die. We've documented a number of proposed environmental rules have been sent to OMB for consideration and never again seen the light of day. Heinzerling points to several others that have been under "review" for years, including a list of "chemicals of concern" and rules about workplace exposure to harmful crystalline silica dust. In other cases, like new Food and Drug Administration rules on food safety, the rules were sent back from OMB significantly weakened.
Funny how Obama more or less took over the EPA and weakened it, but Trump is the problem.
Overall, Obama raised the standards of the EPA by quite a bit. Notably the Clean Power Plan and the expansion of the "Waters of the U.S." rule.

You just found someone who didn't think they went far enough.

Quote:
So I am all for reducing it. Let Congress create a rival to it.
Yes, well great suggestion but that's not what is actually happening right now.

Last edited by le roi; 01-27-2017 at 03:44 PM..
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:36 PM
 
17,752 posts, read 15,597,453 times
Reputation: 6391

We already had the EPA in 1979. So the EPA did nothing.

I guess what you are saying is its best to fly to Washington to handle the issue so that a puppet government is installed for one stop shopping in all states. Why should people go to their local government?

You don't seem to understand that I care about my environment. That's why I don't want it to be primarily at the federal level. Supplementary is just fine. I am glad Beijing does not run my EPA that's for sure. Maybe that's what we need, the UN to be in charge of my water with the main office in China.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Some Beach... Somewhere...
4,760 posts, read 4,016,597 times
Reputation: 4901
Quote:
Originally Posted by summers73 View Post
If they're as competent as libs think EPA officials are, the vast majority of them will find work in the private sector.
Can't they all get jobs with the Clinton Global Initiateve? Oh... yeah..... never mind.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:42 PM
 
Location: The Woods
16,936 posts, read 22,206,840 times
Reputation: 9020
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
We already had the EPA in 1979. So the EPA did nothing.

I guess what you are saying is its best to fly to Washington to handle the issue so that a puppet government is installed for one stop shopping in all states. Why should people go to their local government?

You don't seem to understand that I care about my environment. That's why I don't want it to be primarily at the federal level. Supplementary is just fine. I am glad Beijing does not run my EPA that's for sure. Maybe that's what we need, the UN to be in charge of my water with the main office in China.
The EPA didn't exist in the 1920's when the chemicals were dumped in the canal. The EPA did help clean it up. The EPA is there to prevent future occurrences of that.

It's well documented many states care more about big donors and business than the health of their people. Look what Pruitt did in Oklahoma opposing restrictions on pollution and cleanup efforts around the country.

The EPA's actions have saved many, many lives as my link explained. There's no rational reason to support eliminating the EPA. It's in no one's personal health interests to do so.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:43 PM
 
17,752 posts, read 15,597,453 times
Reputation: 6391
Quote:
Originally Posted by le roi View Post
The refinery in question was given the exemption by Indiana state regulators. The rationale was job creation.

Per the Tribune, the refinery's discharges fell below the EPA's threshold for whatever that material was. There was no special deal with the EPA, it just didn't have high standards at that time for that type of discharge. (mid-2000's I believe)

Presidents and Congress both have far too much influence on the EPA's scientific decisions, but like I've said before, they have to be accountable to someone.

Giving the federal environmental regulators less money, less authority, and less employees is not going to make these outcomes any better.
I suspect they will. For example not bankrupting states , especially by causing the Treasury low interest rate wipe lash . I know what a badly run state is because there are 50 of them. How does anyone know what a well run Fed is? How do I know a "good" one will stop it?



Quote:
Which I might add, George W. Bush ordered coal fired power plants, the major contributor of mercury discharges, exempt from the rules.


Normally you don't. In fact this is the polar opposite of the complaints being made by the people wanting to gut it.

However, if you want me to have some explanation for that quote, I need context, and where it came from.



Overall, Obama raised the standards of the EPA by quite a bit. You just picked one person who didn't think they went far enough.


Yes, well great suggestion but that's not what is actually happening right now.

You missed the point about putting the power in Obama's hands. I warned you lefties about putting power in the hand of the central da guberment. And I am warning you again that Congress is bad enough, but the administration is worst of all. Now that Trump is in office, only now do lefties seem to care.
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles
14,379 posts, read 7,933,606 times
Reputation: 6635
Quote:
Originally Posted by waldokitty View Post
if this comes to pass, it will be quite a change for the epa.

trump plans to cut epa staff in half | washington examiner

good!

Hire them to help build the wall
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Old 01-27-2017, 03:45 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
66,172 posts, read 33,593,322 times
Reputation: 14146
Quote:
Originally Posted by arctichomesteader View Post
Anything impacting navigable waters, crossing state lines and/or impacting interstate commerce is within federal authority. The courts have upheld the Clean Water Act and the Clean Air Act.

Speaking of the courts... You were saying?
Ginsburg is going to hold out as long as she can. Even after announcing if Donald Trump is elected, she is moving to New Zealand. So, all this may be too much for her limp wristed snowflake feeble mind.

Bwaaaaaaahahahahahahahahahaha! Must suck to have many things reversed, past courts said it should say.
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