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Old 01-30-2017, 07:21 AM
 
66,240 posts, read 30,160,286 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
Non-citizens who are in US don't have the right to vote, but other than that they are protected under the Constitution. The Constitution speaks of "people", not "citizens".
Again, the issue at hand is non-citizens who are NOT in the US. They're abroad. As such, they have no Constitutional rights.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,665 posts, read 34,157,952 times
Reputation: 10404
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitian View Post
Just as Diplomats are the rate exception, so are the other non-citizens! At any time, their visas, greencards, and refugee status can be revoked and they are subject to detention and deportation. It's just a fact. At any time, the law affecting the aforementioned non-citizen statuses can change at any time (unlike citizenship afforded by the Constitution). I dont know what else to say. . .
I think the problem is that you do not understand what "protected by the Constitution" or "due process" means.

They are protected by the Constitution, it does not mean they are immune from the courts. No one is.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:24 AM
 
66,240 posts, read 30,160,286 times
Reputation: 8607
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
He said his list was countries that harbored terrorists. Pakistan harbored OBL for years. Sorry, neither side has a leg to stand on here.
Actually, one side does:

Law favors Donald Trump's immigrant travel ban - CNN Video
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:25 AM
 
Location: Florida
62,665 posts, read 34,157,952 times
Reputation: 10404
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Again, the issue at hand is non-citizens who are NOT in the US. They're abroad. As such, they have no Constitutional rights.
I never said they had the rights outside of US.

However, a green card is a lawful resident status, which gives the holder the permit to enter the US and reside in US. This is why Trump flip-flopped on them.

Mike Pence said a Muslim ban would be unconstitutional. Why do you think he said it?
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:25 AM
 
9,173 posts, read 7,034,148 times
Reputation: 11146
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Well that's just foolish ignorance on their part.

Sure it would. Just don't take KNOWN risks, or be willing to accept the consequences.

Anyone can freely travel internationally. That doesn't confer automatic entry to the US. Even US citizens with US passports have to pass through Immigration to re-enter the US.

No foreign citizen is guaranteed automatic entry to the US. Period. Not sure why you and some others don't understand that.
I understand they aren't granted automatic reentry. That's not what I'm arguing.

Of course they have to go through immigration. Not being processed by a USICS agent at an official Port Of Entry is grounds for refusal. I'm not arguing otherwise.

What I am a arguing is that Legal Permanent Residents have been issued a status that comes with a set of conditions - that go both ways. What part of Permanent Resident don't you understand? There are conditions under which you will become inadmissible and being aware of those and complying is part of your responsibly as a holder of this status. In return, you have an expectation of re-addmittance.

Being able to TRAVEL FREELY in this context means when you comply with the conditions of reentry that you have a reasonable expectation of being admissible to the country in which you've been granted PERMANENT RESIDENT status.

These are full tax paying residents of the US. They own property and have US citizen families, in many cases. Being a national of another country does not mean you have any ties or home there, in fact one of the conditions of Permanent Resident is that your life is here and not elsewhere. They should not have the conditions of their residency changed without notice and without chance to return, as long as they have abided by the conditions of reentry as spelled out under the law.

That's what TRAVEL FREELY means.

If you can no longer do so, then you should be told so you can make your own decisions. There was no KNOWN risk of being barred before this EO went into effect.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:25 AM
 
11,926 posts, read 5,666,315 times
Reputation: 6938
Quote:
Originally Posted by FinsterRufus View Post
Green Card holders have an expectation that unless they've not complied with the conditions of reentry, that they'll be admitted.

Otherwise the program in all practicality wouldn't work at all.

It says right there on the USCIS.gov site that green card holders can travel freely internationally.

That assumes a right to reentry.
335,000 people arrived on International flights to the USA and go through Customs - EVERY DAY.
109 people were delayed due to the Presidents Executive Action. A snow storm causes more delays that that.

Statement By Secretary John Kelly On The Entry Of Lawful Permanent Residents Into The United States - January 29, 2017

Green Card holders are cleared for entry back into the USA.

and ........ the Hysterical Meltdown by the Leftists and Media continues.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:27 AM
 
9,173 posts, read 7,034,148 times
Reputation: 11146
Quote:
Originally Posted by InformedConsent View Post
Again, the issue at hand is non-citizens who are NOT in the US. They're abroad. As such, they have no Constitutional rights.
They may not have constitutional rights, but as full tax paying permanent residents they should not be suddenly in exile with no protection and no recourse.

That's immoral.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:27 AM
 
66,240 posts, read 30,160,286 times
Reputation: 8607
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn_Jarber View Post
I think the problem is that you do not understand what "protected by the Constitution" or "due process" means.
Foreign citizens who are not present in the US have no Constitutional rights. Period. What do you not get about that? Serious question.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:28 AM
 
77,989 posts, read 33,265,332 times
Reputation: 15591
Quote:
Originally Posted by Domitian View Post
I think we might be confusing YOUR argument with the overall argument. This thread is about banning immigrants and refugees. And what I and others are saying is that yes, you can ban them as they are not protected by the constitution.

where it got grey is when we were talking about those already here who have some basic rights afforded to them through the constitution but can be revoked through changes in their legal status.
I said that perhaps your comment was simply one of omission or assumption that all would know what you were saying but that when calling out the education of others you need to be more careful.

You could have simply said, yes, I assumed everyone knew what I was saying and not tried to put words in my mouth I didn't say.
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Old 01-30-2017, 07:28 AM
 
9,173 posts, read 7,034,148 times
Reputation: 11146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kibby View Post
335,000 people arrived on International flights to the USA and go through Customs - EVERY DAY.
109 people were delayed due to the Presidents Executive Action. A snow storm causes more delays that that.

Statement By Secretary John Kelly On The Entry Of Lawful Permanent Residents Into The United States - January 29, 2017

Green Card holders are cleared for entry back into the USA.

and ........ the Hysterical Meltdown by the Leftists and Media continues.
It shouldn't have EVEN BEEN A QUESTION.

The implementation of this EO was mismanaged horribly.
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