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Old 01-28-2017, 03:20 PM
 
6,432 posts, read 3,037,719 times
Reputation: 5823

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
Since our government didn't enforce our immigration laws as they should have we law abiding Americans aren't going to pay for their negligence by accepting or advocating for another amnesty or compromising. Fool me once.... No one has the right to improve their lives by breaking laws and taking from others what doesn't belong to them. What part of that don't you get? By improving their lives they have made the lives of regular Americans more difficult. Your compassion is so misplaced.


Peaceful or not they have taken jobs from Americans and Americans need those jobs back! Do you also think that we shouldn't penalize American law breakers? Why have any laws then? Deport them, why? Because they violated our laws and have taken jobs, resources and taxes from Americans, that's why! They are a burden to our society not a benefit. They also send billions out of our country not spent in our country and would continue to do so with or without an amnesty. I suggest you start putting Americans first and start respecting the rule of law.


I don't know what issues you think illegal Mexicans are more conservative about but it's irrelevant. Most American citizens of Mexican descent vote Democrat not Republican.
Your are nuts if you think Americans will do most of the jobs Mexicans will do.

It simply is not true.

In any case, you have valid points. I have valid points.

Bottom line, there are a minority of Americans even among Republicans who want to see mass deportaions of Mexicans who are living peaceably among us.

My guess is that 25% of the American population agrees with you.

There will be a path to citizenship for most Mexican illegal immigrants, once the tide of illegal immigrants is stemmed with a wall and/or other measures. Mark my words.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:23 PM
 
36,167 posts, read 16,163,930 times
Reputation: 9728
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevxu View Post
Better translate that into Russian, so The Donald can run it by the real boss.
Stupid comment.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
20,328 posts, read 13,814,239 times
Reputation: 5216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Yep I understand why you would think it unfair. Life is not always fair.

Unfortunately, the US govt did not enforce our borders and immigration policy.

As a country, we are somewhat complicit in the condition that illegal immigrants who are not criminal, but are simply trying to improve their lives find themselves.

Given than, a compromise is reasonable in my opinion. You are free to disagree.

As an American and as a rational person, I don't see the benefit of penalizing millions of people who are peacefully abiding amongst us. Sure, we could deport them, but why? They are doing jobs that we need and want done.

Cut the flow of illegals off and then deal with the ones we have allowed to stay here for years.

Additionally, it would be a brilliant move on the part of Republicans imo to grant these people a path to citizenship and potentially obtain their vote in the future.

Most Mexican illegals that I know are far more conservative than liberal.
A few things here.

I concede your point that immigration laws have not been enforced for so many years, because our corrupt politicians refused to enforce them. Cheap labor was seen as a political benefit to politicians, because their donors saw it as a financial benefit to themselves.

So now we have had decades with our government tacitly encouraging illegal immigration, and recently we have had entire cities encouraging it.


However, we have reached the point where people will no longer tolerate the status quo. It is imperative that we come down like a hammer, and protect our southern border, reform our immigration system, including visas, and do our best to halt any further illegal immigration.

Many of us do feel empathy for children brought into the USA as children, and growing up only knowing the USA as their home. Trump has hinted his feelings along this line more than a few times.

I sense that Trump will deport every criminal alien he can find, secure our border, find and deport visa overstays, and bring further illegal immigration to an end. Then I see him as signing some form of amnesty legislation to allow the millions of law abiding aliens to follow a path to citizenship, if they swear an oath to become Americans.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Ohio
19,652 posts, read 14,124,840 times
Reputation: 15834
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Does putting a border between two nations in any way address the reason why people move across it illegally?
That issue has to be addressed solely by Mexicans.

Mexico nationalized its oil and natural gas reserves in 1938 under then-President Cardenas.

What has the Mexican government done with all of that Wealth since then?

Nothing.

The Mexican government has failed to reinvest any of the profits in infrastructure building to provide rail roads, highways, natural gas lines, electricity, sewage, water etc etc etc to create a conducive environment that would increase the Standard of Living and Life-Style for Mexicans.

Look at the UN's Human Development Index

| Human Development Reports

Mexico dropped from #72 to #74, so they're going backwards. In terms of development, Cuba is at #67 by comparison, yet Cuba has no oil or natural gas reserves.

When Mexicans get tired of the poor life, they'll start demanding good government and elect the same.

If Mexicans need to revolt to ensure they have good government, then that's exactly what they should do.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:29 PM
 
6,432 posts, read 3,037,719 times
Reputation: 5823
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
A few things here.

I concede your point that immigration laws have not been enforced for so many years, because our corrupt politicians refused to enforce them. Cheap labor was seen as a political benefit to politicians, because their donors saw it as a financial benefit to themselves.

So now we have had decades with our government tacitly encouraging illegal immigration, and recently we have had entire cities encouraging it.


However, we have reached the point where people will no longer tolerate the status quo. It is imperative that we come down like a hammer, and protect our southern border, reform our immigration system, including visas, and do our best to halt any further illegal immigration.

Many of us do feel empathy for children brought into the USA as children, and growing up only knowing the USA as their home. Trump has hinted his feelings along this line more than a few times.

I sense that Trump will deport every criminal alien he can find, secure our border, find and deport visa overstays, and bring further illegal immigration to an end. Then I see him as signing some form of amnesty legislation to allow the millions of law abiding aliens to follow a path to citizenship, if they swear an oath to become Americans.
I agree and imo as it should be. There will be winners/losers on both side of this actions, oh well that's life.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:32 PM
 
3,312 posts, read 1,863,856 times
Reputation: 1857
Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldglory View Post
You're not real bright if you were born here but consider yourself a foreigner. Illegal aliens aren't "immigrants". What part of that aren't you getting?


Once again, the past has nothing to do with our right as a nation to have immigration laws. We have internationally recognized borders and an established government. Get your head out of the past and stop using it as an excuse for anyone to violate our immigration laws. What are you, 12 years old?


There were no original native Americans by the way. All of our ancestors migrated here from somewhere else and no one owned the land back then nor were there any immigration laws back then. By the way, the descendants of the tribes that settled within our borders are all full fledged U.S. citizens just like the rest of us. If you want to b*tch about conquering why don't you go spit on a dead conqueror's grave if it makes you feel any better. It has nothing to do with those of us alive today. And by the way....grow up!

Cute insult but okay, if you consider deep thinking to be not bright then I'm happy not to be bright.
Well when I have said I don't care about learning about certain aspects of history people tell me our past is important. Which is it then? Make up your mind.

Are you sure there were none? History dictates otherwise.

I'm glad you think debating always means b-ing.

I'm not saying we can't have immigration laws. I don't remember saying that at but I wonder putting a literal wall over actually says about us. It almost seems like we're saying we can't trust other countries at all. You can put a wall over your house but can you put it over a country? I mean it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Well I hope you're telling Trump to grow up as well because he's the one that needs to. Yes I'll admit it it was brash to say "why is that difficult to comprehend?" but I am disabled so I lack to a degree the ability to be articulate so it might come out in a way that seems insulting occasionally especially when I try to be concise because I figure people won't read all of what I'm saying so I try to be a straight shooter. I know what I'm talking about. It makes sense in my head but I can't always process it in a way that a neurotypical is going to understand
I wasn't saying you were stupid but I was saying that it would appear dishonest that we were excluding immigrants when we are immigrants. How do you know it's not going to keep out people that are trying to come here legally?

I guess even subconsciously I defend the immigrants because I've always been an outsider. Yeah legally I'm a citizen and sometimes I even bask in my disconnect but it doesn't change the fact that it does make it hard. I've never had them hurt me..it's almost always been the other Americans. I don't even know if this will show to have any relevance to what we are talking about but it makes me wonder who we are really kicking out. Maybe I'm even thinking too hard idk but is it possible that someone in Mexico will be in the same position that I am maybe worse?
If you want just enforce the laws you already have. Don't make it more difficult for good people who want a better life. I should have started with this perhaps.

TLDR no problem with protecting ourselves from bad people but things like this can only hurt the ones with good intentions. I know because I've been building a metaphorical wall for years but the sturdier I make that wall the more I'm only doing injustice to good people. The bad people can break my wall if they're determined enough so why do I put it up so high?


Quote:
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
I work as a part time cashier at a grocery store. Funny thing, I'm going to say, for every 100 customers that come through with a food stamp card, at least 99 of them were not born here, and are immigrants, quite recent might I add, because they do have very thick accents. Please, tell me where else could I as an American citizen, go and move to another country because I don't like this one, and get a job, benefits and welfare. My life is getting worse and more harder, inflation going through the roof, the paycheck not keeping up, but because I am a responsible adult not popping out kids that I can't afford, don't have any special interest groups to stick up for me, or organizations I can turn to for help. My only option is to either get a third job, or just stop paying some bills and ruin my credit. I'm not against migration, obviously my ancestors were immigrants. But, I just think it's only fair that if my family can come here with nothing, and make something of themselves without asking for handouts, there is no reason why the newer immigrants can't as well. I'm tired of my quality of life going to hell because I am being over taxed and regulated so some immigrant can have the plush life. I can't even afford to run my AC in the summer, but the next door neighbors from one of the island countries seem to run the ac on a big house thanks to vouchers, drive around in Mercedes and BMW's and dress in high end clothes thanks to selling drugs and every night, throw huge parties,thanks to the welfare their baby mama's are bringing in, smoking pot, driving recklessly around the neighborhood with expired license plates on their cars, go to sleep and not have to wake up until noon the next day, just to do it all over again. All of those activities in turn, cause my insurance on the house and car to go up because they are creating unsafe conditions, cost of food is going through the roof, and dread the day I have to actually go to the hospital for some major treatment.

This is the main problem I have with this wall: While some migrants may have bad intentions, all it seems to do is shift hands. Who gets the job? You do. I don't and I often wonder if it's only going to make it harder for me to get a job. I'm not saying that you don't deserve to work but don't I deserve it too? I've seen a lot of Americans get jobs over me not illegals. It's always been you guys that get the job over me. Why? Because you're good at "faking" it.
Now one would like to think that if you guys get jobs, you won't be competing with me to get a job that I'm trying for because you have yours. However I still have a concern here. That means if the illegals are turned away more people are going to start looking for work again and I won't have a shot in hell because I'll have more competition.

I know what you're thinking. Well so it'll be okay if you get a job and we don't? I know that's not a plausible solution either but there has to be another way. Maybe it'll even out I suppose because maybe there's more people that are still trying to get work than there is giving up..idk but considering the fact that the average American are the ones that always "win" those jobs I guess I can't help but be a little scared of how this is all going to turn out esp when a lot of them don't understand what it's like to be a minority

That's if this wall even works too like I said up there.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:32 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
20,328 posts, read 13,814,239 times
Reputation: 5216
Quote:
Originally Posted by ads94 View Post
See - fact of the matter is that that are immigrants to the United States who do not have documentation. Thus, undocumented immigrants. The other term implies a person is illegal, which is a nonsensical statement. Though taking into account the other things Republicans think, I guess a lot of people could be illegal...

I digress.

I'm not too sure why you are objecting to undocumented migrants. They are the ones who work on your home, do your plumbing, pick your strawberries, mop up the corner store you go to, cook your meal at your favourite restaurant. They are part of the backbone that makes this country run. And they are horribly exploited for it. This in it of itself is reason enough to explore amnesty for these people, so they don't have to live in the shadows and be taken advantage of, being paid pittance wages.

Majority of undocumented immigrants work in low skill jobs report finds
{snip}
Yes, they take away jobs from our plumbers, our electricians, our roofers, our construction workers. Furthermore, since they are here illegally, they work for pennies on the dollar, and depress the wages for all Americans who were able to raise a family as a skilled tradesman, before their jobs were stolen.

Last edited by Wapasha; 01-28-2017 at 03:52 PM..
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:37 PM
 
Location: Montgomery County, PA
14,507 posts, read 9,593,619 times
Reputation: 12019
Quote:
Originally Posted by man4857 View Post
It can be done, but it's stupidity to the max.

You think a 10 foot wall will keep people from coming here if they really want to?
You know people can dig tunnels...
Use ropes to climb...
Drive a semi straight through....

Do you idiots really think a wall will keep people out? It makes us look like fools that's all it does.
Maybe first we should get that free college set up, then send all the idiots there first.
Would you recommend tearing down the wall we already have then? It's not doing much. Can't have it both ways , buddy.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:38 PM
 
Location: Hartford County, CT
843 posts, read 446,637 times
Reputation: 458
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
Yes, that take away jobs from our plumbers, are electricians, our roofers, our construction workers. Furthermore, since they are here illegally, they work for pennies on the dollar, and depress the wages for all Americans who were able to raise a family as a skilled tradesman, before their jobs were stolen.
This, however, says that is incorrect.

Oh, and if they actually do? Then grant them amnesty so they stop depressing wages.

The alternative is to what? Round up all the undocumented immigrants and deport them? Say nothing of the humanitarian tragedy, ethnic cleansing, and legality issues that arise from that, how would you pay for it? How would the logistics work? It's unfeasible.
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Old 01-28-2017, 03:44 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
20,328 posts, read 13,814,239 times
Reputation: 5216
Quote:
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
Maybe what you say is true, but consider this:

Corporations are getting a free ride on your dime too. And they're the reason illegal immigration occurs.

It's almost like the private sector is benefiting and forcing the public to shoulder all costs.

Do you believe building a wall is going to erase that behavior if our laws, judicial system, and governments cannot?
I believe a concerted, good faith effort to actually enforce our immigration laws, will make the difference.

build the fences, install cameras, motion sensors and other electronic devices where a fence is not practical.

Hire more border patrol, more ICE personnel, use UAVs, helicopters

Revamp our visa worker and visitor programs, track and monitor visa holders so they leave when they promised they would.

Implement an E-verify system to stop people from illegally working in the USA.

Revamp our taxpayer system to prevent fraudulent tax filings by illegals.

Deport criminal aliens, with a life-time ban on reentry for violent offenders

Deport all visa overstays, if they do not voluntarily go back home.

Bring an end to sanctuary cities

All of these initiatives and more, all working together can bring an end to illegal immigration, and then we can decide what to do with all the non-criminal illegal aliens, who truly want to become Americans
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