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Old 01-28-2017, 03:57 PM
36,241 posts, read 16,208,160 times
Reputation: 9748


Originally Posted by Blondy View Post
Your are nuts if you think Americans will do most of the jobs Mexicans will do.

It simply is not true.

In any case, you have valid points. I have valid points.

Bottom line, there are a minority of Americans even among Republicans who want to see mass deportaions of Mexicans who are living peaceably among us.

My guess is that 25% of the American population agrees with you.

There will be a path to citizenship for most Mexican illegal immigrants, once the tide of illegal immigrants is stemmed with a wall and/or other measures. Mark my words.

Americans were already doing the jobs that "illegal" Mexicans are doing now for a fair wage. Are you really this clueless?

Again, there will be no mass deportations of illegal aliens, Mexican or not but they will be leaving as they are found. Being peaceful does not excuse anyone for breaking the law not even our own citizens get away with that.

Since Trump won the election and mostly over his stance on illegal immigration I'd say that it's more than 25% of Americans that agree with me.

No, there won't be a path to citizenship for illegals, Mexican or not but do keep dreaming your anti-American dream.

I have no interest in discussing anything with you anymore. I can't stand people like you. So nice have the ignore feature of this forum. Buh, bye.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:05 PM
36,241 posts, read 16,208,160 times
Reputation: 9748
Originally Posted by Wapasha View Post
A few things here.

I concede your point that immigration laws have not been enforced for so many years, because our corrupt politicians refused to enforce them. Cheap labor was seen as a political benefit to politicians, because their donors saw it as a financial benefit to themselves.

So now we have had decades with our government tacitly encouraging illegal immigration, and recently we have had entire cities encouraging it.

However, we have reached the point where people will no longer tolerate the status quo. It is imperative that we come down like a hammer, and protect our southern border, reform our immigration system, including visas, and do our best to halt any further illegal immigration.

Many of us do feel empathy for children brought into the USA as children, and growing up only knowing the USA as their home. Trump has hinted his feelings along this line more than a few times.

I sense that Trump will deport every criminal alien he can find, secure our border, find and deport visa overstays, and bring further illegal immigration to an end. Then I see him as signing some form of amnesty legislation to allow the millions of law abiding aliens to follow a path to citizenship, if they swear an oath to become Americans.

None of them are law abiding. If they were they wouldn't be here and working here illegally. I feel no empathy for illegal aliens and their kids. Empathy that includes any member of the family here illegally rewards their parents for bringing them here illegally. They know the culture and language of their homelands. What's the difference? Kids often have to re-locate with their parents when they change jobs, etc. They adapt. Let me ask you this does that mean you'd allow these kids brought here illegally to remain here but deport their parents? Isn't that the separation of family that illegals and their supporters keep wailing about? I'll wait for your answer but I won't hold my breath.

Trump had better not offer any amnesty and least of all our citizenship to any of these people.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:07 PM
Location: Wisconsin
20,339 posts, read 13,828,193 times
Reputation: 5220
Originally Posted by ads94 View Post
So then what, jail them?
Still on the 'round them up' scree I see. Try something new, besides starting out by insulting the person you are trying to debate.

Originally Posted by ads94 View Post
I was simply offering an alternative that was suggested by our President. You are free to engage in ad hominem attacks, yet you did not address the two articles - both of which discussed how undocumented immigrants do not cause jobs to other Americans or how if they did the solution would be to bring them out of the shadows so they won't be paid pennies on the dollar. All I see from you is an attack on something the President himself suggested, that I simply reiterated.

If you'd like to debate your original argument of undocumented immigrants depressing wages or causing the labour market to contract I will be waiting for a response to my points, or some evidence and sources to back up your claim.
A person trained in Mexico in construction, comes to the US illegally, and works construction for $6 an hour, depresses the wages that US citizens who work construction were getting paid $10 or $15 an hour to do.

Illegal aliens picking crops for cheap wages, depresses job where US workers could have built and sold automated equipment to that farmer to harvest those same crops.

Illegal immigrants, working for pennies on the dollar upsets our entire economy. Of course some people will be winners, that's why our corrupt politicians refuse to enforce our laws, because someone with deep pockets is paying them not to enforce immigration law.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:07 PM
Location: NJ/NY
10,763 posts, read 10,125,622 times
Reputation: 7619
Originally Posted by coldwine View Post
So you support a plan that will cost your nation untold billions of dollars?

How exactly, then, will building a wall by the US mean the issue is being addressed solely by Mexicans?

Do you understand what am I am hinting at? I am asking you if you can see the disparity between your words-- "has to be addressed solely by Mexicans"-- and the actions being taken.

If the US builds a wall, is the issue being addressed solely by Mexicans?
I think he is saying that we should take care of the problems on our side of the border the way we see fit. They can take care of the problems on their side of the border as they see fit. Or not.

We are 2 separate countries. It is not our responsibility to take care of their problems for them. Nor is it right for anyone to expect their problems to become our problems.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:07 PM
Location: Places you dream of
20,060 posts, read 12,036,753 times
Reputation: 8697
Implement mandatory e verify and criminal charges for circumventing that law. Implement seasonal worker visas with less restrictions, renewable every year. $1000 entry fee and back ground check. Spend hard money on drug addicts, stop the drugs! And cut off the Hmm hmm -- fir Human trafficking for sex, that will stop fast, go back to your wives, busturds --- --and put the diplomas at the airports fir foreign students, graduate and fly!!!!. guarantee you will no longer have a illegal problem.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:08 PM
36,241 posts, read 16,208,160 times
Reputation: 9748
Originally Posted by jeffrow1 View Post
Spend some money preventing employers from hiring illegals and call it a day. Crazy that we would waste 50 billion on a stupid gesture to satisfy some pretty ignorant voters.

Criminals and terrorists aren't interested in jobs. $50 billion? Where are you getting that number? The ignorant ones are those who would rather spend $113 billion year taking care of illegal aliens. Now that's ignorance!
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:09 PM
Location: Anderson, IN
4,287 posts, read 1,338,749 times
Reputation: 2632
Originally Posted by warhorse78 View Post
I work as a part time cashier at a grocery store. Funny thing, I'm going to say, for every 100 customers that come through with a food stamp card, at least 99 of them were not born here, and are immigrants, quite recent might I add, because they do have very thick accents. Please, tell me where else could I as an American citizen, go and move to another country because I don't like this one, and get a job, benefits and welfare. My life is getting worse and more harder, inflation going through the roof, the paycheck not keeping up, but because I am a responsible adult not popping out kids that I can't afford, don't have any special interest groups to stick up for me, or organizations I can turn to for help. My only option is to either get a third job, or just stop paying some bills and ruin my credit. I'm not against migration, obviously my ancestors were immigrants. But, I just think it's only fair that if my family can come here with nothing, and make something of themselves without asking for handouts, there is no reason why the newer immigrants can't as well. I'm tired of my quality of life going to hell because I am being over taxed and regulated so some immigrant can have the plush life. I can't even afford to run my AC in the summer, but the next door neighbors from one of the island countries seem to run the ac on a big house thanks to vouchers, drive around in Mercedes and BMW's and dress in high end clothes thanks to selling drugs and every night, throw huge parties,thanks to the welfare their baby mama's are bringing in, smoking pot, driving recklessly around the neighborhood with expired license plates on their cars, go to sleep and not have to wake up until noon the next day, just to do it all over again. All of those activities in turn, cause my insurance on the house and car to go up because they are creating unsafe conditions, cost of food is going through the roof, and dread the day I have to actually go to the hospital for some major treatment.

Instead of kvetching about the neighbors, do something about them. Call the police. Call the local welfare office if they really are driving around in Mercedes and BMWs because they are selling drugs. Start a crime watch in your neighborhood. Get others involved. Be proactive.

ncpc.org is a good resource for crime prevention.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:09 PM
Status: "Elect a clown? Expect a circus!" (set 4 days ago)
Location: By the sea, by the sea, by the beautiful sea
58,052 posts, read 40,812,327 times
Reputation: 29727
Originally Posted by andywire View Post
If democrats have money to waste on food stamps, than I am fine with the wall. At least we will have something to show for all the money spent. Something democrats rarely get to say about anything they waste money on when they are in control.
And just how much $$$ did the Republicans who decided to invade/occupy Iraq with NO benefit to the US waste? Or is your selective vision so well trained you don't notice things like that?
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:11 PM
36,241 posts, read 16,208,160 times
Reputation: 9748
Originally Posted by Nickchick View Post
Cute insult but okay, if you consider deep thinking to be not bright then I'm happy not to be bright.
Well when I have said I don't care about learning about certain aspects of history people tell me our past is important. Which is it then? Make up your mind.

Are you sure there were none? History dictates otherwise.

I'm glad you think debating always means b-ing.

I'm not saying we can't have immigration laws. I don't remember saying that at but I wonder putting a literal wall over actually says about us. It almost seems like we're saying we can't trust other countries at all. You can put a wall over your house but can you put it over a country? I mean it just doesn't make any sense to me.

Well I hope you're telling Trump to grow up as well because he's the one that needs to. Yes I'll admit it it was brash to say "why is that difficult to comprehend?" but I am disabled so I lack to a degree the ability to be articulate so it might come out in a way that seems insulting occasionally especially when I try to be concise because I figure people won't read all of what I'm saying so I try to be a straight shooter. I know what I'm talking about. It makes sense in my head but I can't always process it in a way that a neurotypical is going to understand
I wasn't saying you were stupid but I was saying that it would appear dishonest that we were excluding immigrants when we are immigrants. How do you know it's not going to keep out people that are trying to come here legally?

I guess even subconsciously I defend the immigrants because I've always been an outsider. Yeah legally I'm a citizen and sometimes I even bask in my disconnect but it doesn't change the fact that it does make it hard. I've never had them hurt me..it's almost always been the other Americans. I don't even know if this will show to have any relevance to what we are talking about but it makes me wonder who we are really kicking out. Maybe I'm even thinking too hard idk but is it possible that someone in Mexico will be in the same position that I am maybe worse?
If you want just enforce the laws you already have. Don't make it more difficult for good people who want a better life. I should have started with this perhaps.

TLDR no problem with protecting ourselves from bad people but things like this can only hurt the ones with good intentions. I know because I've been building a metaphorical wall for years but the sturdier I make that wall the more I'm only doing injustice to good people. The bad people can break my wall if they're determined enough so why do I put it up so high?

This is the main problem I have with this wall: While some migrants may have bad intentions, all it seems to do is shift hands. Who gets the job? You do. I don't and I often wonder if it's only going to make it harder for me to get a job. I'm not saying that you don't deserve to work but don't I deserve it too? I've seen a lot of Americans get jobs over me not illegals. It's always been you guys that get the job over me. Why? Because you're good at "faking" it.
Now one would like to think that if you guys get jobs, you won't be competing with me to get a job that I'm trying for because you have yours. However I still have a concern here. That means if the illegals are turned away more people are going to start looking for work again and I won't have a shot in hell because I'll have more competition.

I know what you're thinking. Well so it'll be okay if you get a job and we don't? I know that's not a plausible solution either but there has to be another way. Maybe it'll even out I suppose because maybe there's more people that are still trying to get work than there is giving up..idk but considering the fact that the average American are the ones that always "win" those jobs I guess I can't help but be a little scared of how this is all going to turn out esp when a lot of them don't understand what it's like to be a minority

That's if this wall even works too like I said up there.

Such total ignorance. Another one for my ignore list.
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Old 01-28-2017, 04:11 PM
Location: Houston
5,341 posts, read 2,718,719 times
Reputation: 3301
Originally Posted by T-310 View Post
Motion sensors attached to machine guns.

A ditch filled with toxic waste.
^^^The mindset of a Trump loving pseudo conservative.^^^

Amazing the amount of sociopathic behavior exhibited on this board from them.
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