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Old 01-28-2017, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Native of Any Beach/FL
35,406 posts, read 20,779,044 times
Reputation: 14144

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Quote:
Originally Posted by bpollen View Post
Bill Clinton did not write all the tax laws that rich people use for deductions and business losses. Get real. For one thing...Congress writes laws. The Congress was Republican for part of Clinton's Presidency.

If only Trumpers would learn facts instead of Trump-facts.
Cogress does not write laws - the lobbyists do,,, they just vote - well eat lunch, talk crap - then sleep, talk some more - take a break then maybe vote
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:44 PM
 
10,226 posts, read 7,515,335 times
Reputation: 23155
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I think your news sources conflated and confused you - perhaps on purpose.

The issue with Obama's executive orders wasn't the number. Some executive orders are 100% legal, with precedent, and even expressly written into laws, etc....While other executive orders are a gray area and perhaps even illegal. Other executive orders set new precedent and expand the federal government/executive branch's powers. This was the issue - are they legal/expanding power too much? Is it worth getting tied up in court over it?


Likewise, the issue with Trump's executive orders will be are they legal - NOT, how many there are.


I hope this clarifies things for you.


To just cite a mere number has no relevance except for vacuous talking points. If Trump signs 100 executive orders for merely lowering flags for fallen soldiers or placing flowers on tombstones - no serious lawyer will bat an eye (only the hyper-partisan-void-of-reason types will complain). If Trump signs a single executive order next week that is illegal - it will be a big deal and rightfully so.
That is NOT what Republicans complained of throughout Obama's Presidency. They explicitly complained of the NUMBER of Executive Orders. I saw posts here in this forum stating "facts" and listing numbers showing that Obama had signed more EOs than any other President. The fact is that Obama signed FEWER Executive Orders than all the recent Presidents.

And Trump was one of those complaining about Obama's issuing EOs.

But as long as they are legal, the Prez has the right. They all do it.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Central Washington
1,663 posts, read 867,261 times
Reputation: 2941
The number of executive orders isn't the real issue, its Obama's abuse of the separation of powers. And he wrote many more orders than he claims, he just called them "Executive Memorandums"

Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

Even though he wrote a lot of them, he never seemed to get very good at it, judging by his abysmal performance before the Supreme Court. Sounds like a Constitutional scholar to me.

https://thefederalist.com/2016/07/06...ern-president/
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:46 PM
 
Location: Sector 001
15,932 posts, read 12,207,743 times
Reputation: 16097
all previous executive orders issued by any president ever should be repealed and no new orders allowed to be issued. Everything should be done via the 3 branches of government. If government needs to pass something FAST well get them out of bed at 2AM on a Saturday like the rest of us have to do.

In general I do not approve of Trump doing all these things via executive order any more than I approve of Obama's executive orders.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:48 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,512 posts, read 17,977,814 times
Reputation: 34243
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Ironic that no one gives a hoot anymore about Trump's onslaught of EO's when the very same people said Obama was the anti-christ or a communist whenever he issued an EO. But apparently now it's OK if Trump does it and is on pace to issue more EOs than B.O. issued during his entire 8 year term.
I wouldn't go that far. Firstly, some of Trump's executive orders are mere reversals of Obama's orders (that shouldn't really count as it returns things to how they were before Obama . . . and Trump complained about how Obama used executive orders to bring about that change in the first place). Secondly, many of an administration's executive orders will be signed in its opening days. Trump would have to keep up this pace far beyond his administration's opening days (extrapolating based of what he's put out so far doesn't really align with historical practice).
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Honolulu/DMV Area/NYC
30,512 posts, read 17,977,814 times
Reputation: 34243
Quote:
Originally Posted by dozerbear View Post
The number of executive orders isn't the real issue, its Obama's abuse of the separation of powers. And he wrote many more orders than he claims, he just called them "Executive Memorandums"

Obama issues 'executive orders by another name'

Even though he wrote a lot of them, he never seemed to get very good at it, judging by his abysmal performance before the Supreme Court. Sounds like a Constitutional scholar to me.

https://thefederalist.com/2016/07/06...ern-president/
That's an excellent point, and something I didn't know. The leftist media failing to mention this when counting the number of executive orders is, well, simply being the leftist media.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:51 PM
 
9,837 posts, read 4,604,138 times
Reputation: 7292
Quote:
Originally Posted by michiganmoon View Post
I think your news sources conflated and confused you - perhaps on purpose.

The issue with Obama's executive orders wasn't the number. Some executive orders are 100% legal, with precedent, and even expressly written into laws, etc....While other executive orders are a gray area and perhaps even illegal. Other executive orders set new precedent and expand the federal government/executive branch's powers. This was the issue - are they legal/expanding power too much? Is it worth getting tied up in court over it?


Likewise, the issue with Trump's executive orders will be are they legal - NOT, how many there are.


I hope this clarifies things for you.


To just cite a mere number has no relevance except for vacuous talking points. If Trump signs 100 executive orders for merely lowering flags for fallen soldiers or placing flowers on tombstones - no serious lawyer will bat an eye (only the hyper-partisan-void-of-reason types will complain). If Trump signs a single executive order next week that is illegal - it will be a big deal and rightfully so.
It is a fair point you make.

But keep in mind a number of Trump's EOs are going to be challenged as soon as they try to enforce them.

They are simply getting ducks in a row and waiting to see if anyone is stupid enough to try to enforce them.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:51 PM
 
Location: Ohio
24,623 posts, read 19,068,157 times
Reputation: 21733
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Ironic that no one gives a hoot anymore about Trump's onslaught of EO's when the very same people said Obama was the anti-christ or a communist whenever he issued an EO.
That would be a Straw Man Argument.

The issue was never the number of Executive Orders issued, rather the issue was always the constitutionality of many of the Executive Orders, especially those related to guns and immigration. As long as the Executive Orders were based on legitimate statutory or constitutional authority, they were no problem (although they might have grated against some people).

There was also the question of authority when Obama signed Executive Orders resulting in 43 changes to Obamacare. For example, PPACA clearly states that the deadline to provide health plan coverage to employees was December 31, 2013.

Obama signed an Executive Order delaying that until 2015, then amended that EO delaying it until 2016.

Presidents have no authority to amend laws passed by Congress.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:53 PM
 
1,650 posts, read 1,108,426 times
Reputation: 1666
Quote:
Originally Posted by evilcart View Post
It is a fair point you make.

But keep in mind a number of Trump's EOs are going to be challenged as soon as they try to enforce them.

They are simply getting ducks in a row and waiting to see if anyone is stupid enough to try to enforce them.
It will be just like Obama's orders. It will be upheld for years while the courts figure it out. Deal with it, the people spoke and Trump is president. If you want to change it, vote in 2 years when midterms are up for grab. Burning trash cans and beating up trump supporters will change nothing.
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Old 01-28-2017, 10:54 PM
 
Location: The Republic of Texas
78,866 posts, read 46,401,031 times
Reputation: 18520
Quote:
Originally Posted by fibonacci View Post
Ironic that no one gives a hoot anymore about Trump's onslaught of EO's when the very same people said Obama was the anti-christ or a communist whenever he issued an EO. But apparently now it's OK if Trump does it and is on pace to issue more EOs than B.O. issued during his entire 8 year term.

Well, he will be signing exactly the same number as Obama did in 8 years in 2 weeks...
To erase Obamas unconstitutional existence from the books. Every executive order Obama made, Trump is reversing... You mad?
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