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I believe that life occurs at implantation, so yeah, in my opinion an IUD is an abortifacient. It is also a potentially dangerous method of birth control because it can puncture the uterus or fail to remove all remnants of a zygote which can result in infections that can lead to infertility. I am not informed enough with regard to the morning after pill, but if it can be ingested prior to implantation, then my personal belief is that it does not act as an abortifacient.
What most effective form of BC are you alleging I want outlawed?
Child birth is much more dangerous than an IUD. Childbirth can lead to infertility. Child birth can lead to death.
Abortion in the first trimester is safer than childbirth. IUDs are safer than childbirth.
If you are going to pretend that safety is the reason to outlaw birth control you are going to lose horribly.
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,587,616 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tipsywicket
My niece has three children and their total income is less than $40K per year. She has raised the most delightful, respectful, fun, funny and smart kids I have ever met, including my own and I earn multiples of her income. Money has nothing to do with how kids turn out. You are projecting your judgment on what other people value. I grew up poor, until my older siblings moved out of the house and my father had opportunities to take on jobs that had greater risks and greater rewards. You have this idea in your head that unless you are middle class or above, you and your children will lead a miserable and worthless life. I don't share your pessimism.
I said without public assistance, meaning just subsistence level. I don't know where you live, but it is quite expensive to live here. One person alone with no dependents is middle class here at $52k/year, but add a spouse and a kid and congratulations, you just became working poor
So until this fertilized egg is born it could be a transistor radio or a ham sandwich or a pumpkin according to your logic.
Nope, pumpkins are alive. Well pumpkin plants are anyway.
Quote:
A fertilized egg, one that has a heart beat that can be heard as early as 6 weeks, is merely a possible oak tree until it exits the birth canal? Sorry but. Science.
Heart can be grown in the lab. They can beat. Are they alive? Do they have the same rights a human does? Sorry but SCIENCE.
Regardless of your imaginings, a zygote is a human life form, albeit the earliest stage of the human life form, but until it ceases to exist on it's own (i.e., by miscarriage) that is human life that exists and has value.
Proof? Evidence? Anything besides you oft repeated but meaning less "but the beating heart" and various forms of pearl clutching?
The reality is that is exactly where we were in the 1960's, you already know that will be the case if we overturn Roe v Wade. But even if we never had an abortion again in this country where would you put a few hundred thousand unwanted children, Social services? A teenage girl having a child in many cases is doomed to a life of poverty and public assistance.
I do not have the answer to all the questions of the universe. I don't believe that abortion will ever be outlawed, there are too many people who do not view an unborn child as a life that has value. I also know that the number of abortions continues to decrease as more women become aware of the truth about the human life they are carrying.
I know that the biggest threat to pro-abortion activists is legislation requiring that women receive an ultrasound before an abortion can be performed because seeing the outline of a baby and seeing that beating heart defeats the "clump of cells" lie that most women who seek abortions cling to. So I think that every state should require an ultrasound before an abortion is performed. Maybe even a 3 day waiting period like gun control advocates push for the purchase of a gun. The old "cooling off" period. But until women see the value they have as givers of life and until society sees the value of ALL life and not just this group or that group, abortion will always exist. So will murder and every other crime against humanity.
Again, poverty will always exist. There is no way to obliterate poverty unless you become North Korea and kill off anyone who does not contribute to the process and you control everyone else so that there is no possible ability for instability. And, since that is a terrible and unlikely scenario, then poverty will always exist.
The ninth amendment states "“The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed
to deny or disparage others retained by the people†which basically means just because it isn't in the constitution doesn't mean it isn't a right. Particularly this applies to privacy. Your entire right to privacy as a citizen in the US stems from the 9th amendment and the interpretation that people have the right to privacy. The right to make PRIVATE decisions regarding reproduction, sex, etc.
Conversely why do you think the states have the right to determine what medical procedures any citizen can make?
The 10th Amendment:
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
Location: Live:Downtown Phoenix, AZ/Work:Greater Los Angeles, CA
27,606 posts, read 14,587,616 times
Reputation: 9169
Quote:
Originally Posted by tipsywicket
I do not have the answer to all the questions of the universe. I don't believe that abortion will ever be outlawed, there are too many people who do not view an unborn child as a life that has value. I also know that the number of abortions continues to decrease as more women become aware of the truth about the human life they are carrying.
I know that the biggest threat to pro-abortion activists is legislation requiring that women receive an ultrasound before an abortion can be performed because seeing the outline of a baby and seeing that beating heart defeats the "clump of cells" lie that most women who seek abortions cling to. So I think that every state should require an ultrasound before an abortion is performed. Maybe even a 3 day waiting period like gun control advocates push for the purchase of a gun. The old "cooling off" period. But until women see the value they have as givers of life and until society sees the value of ALL life and not just this group or that group, abortion will always exist. So will murder and every other crime against humanity.
Again, poverty will always exist. There is no way to obliterate poverty unless you become North Korea and kill off anyone who does not contribute to the process and you control everyone else so that there is no possible ability for instability. And, since that is a terrible and unlikely scenario, then poverty will always exist.
The reason the number of abortions is decreasing has nothing to do with what you said. It is due to increasing availability of birth control
Yes, but it needs to be replaced with better access to contraceptives and sex education at schools. Otherwise we will end up with a tsunami of street kids who will cause all kinds of social problems later.
Agreed. I think that there is agreement by the majority on both sides of this issue that safe and effective contraception needs to be available and affordable to all women.
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people
Ya except for the ones in the 9th.
"The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage OTHERS retained by the people"
Agreed. I think that there is agreement by the majority on both sides of this issue that safe and effective contraception needs to be available and affordable to all women.
But not IUDs or the pill. So that leaves what? Condoms?
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