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I've been to both countries, and both of their cities I've been in were indeed obviously terribly polluted. In China in particular, I was coughing up gross black stuff (sorry for tmi) towards the end of the trip and for a few days after returning to the States. But that's the thing - it went away when I was out of that polluted cesspool and back to a country with actual environmental standards.
So although the global damage tally will still be high without the cooperation of those countries, we at least do have the power to minimize environmental health hazards in our own land (not completely eradicate, since to some degree pollution and contamination will carry around the world).
In places like Southern California alone, the air has become remarkably cleaner over the last several decades. The smog used to be so bad, you could see the haze in brown layers like cake.
We don't have control over what other countries do. But I think we can keep our own backyard clean. Is the EPA perfect? Nope, there's definitely lots of overreach and nonsense rules that do need to be addressed. But it'd be a mistake to throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Amen to that. I well recall the 'smog alerts' for Los Angeles. I also recall when visiting New York City (1960s) that the air was black from the stuff coming out of the buses, cars and trucks. Indeed, even in lowly Fort Worth, my home, back then downtown was a rather bad experience with the trapped emissions; my father's white shirt would be tinged with gray by the end of each day.
I was fortunate in my visit to Beijing. We arrived soon after the 2008 Olympics, and on the day after a rain storm. Wonderfully clear air! We left Beijing after a day and toured other parts of the country. Seven days later, upon arrival back in Beijing, the pollution was back to 'normal'. We went to the Olympic stadium to see the 'Birds Nest'. From 100 yards away one could not see it.
I will remark that Barry Goldwater was firmly for the EPA. He believed, correctly, that to be a Conservative also meant preserving the environment for later generations.
I also recall one of President Reagan's heads of the EPA, I think James Watt. He was infamous for remarking that Jesus would be made if He returned and we had not used up everything.
Anyway, China is taking steps to control emissions. They have to. People are dying, just like they used to do in London back in the 1950s, when many still used coal to heat their homes.
So we should destroy the environment because China does? We want to be like China and India now?
My question is why do Cons hate clear air and safe drinking water.
once again i remind you that reigning in the EPA does not mitigate the clean air act, nor the clean water act. it merely forces the EPA to stop making regulations based on feelings, and use real science. and to enforce existing regulations as well.
my question to you is, why are you so easily frightened?
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Originally Posted by troymclure
Have you? Please tell everyone in what capacity,
i have had to deal with EPA regulations when i worked in the national parks. and they were in fact good regulations with good reasons behind them. for instance not being allowed to use poisons when trying to keep mice out of the guest cabins.
While I agree with you dog8food that what India and China are doing to the environment is abhorrent. I however can't agree that two wrongs make a right. Do you honestly want to live in filth and breath toxic air like Beijing? It has nothing to do with being on the left or being on the right. It has everything to do with quality of life and drinking safe water. This should be a common sense issue, not political.
The "left" is full of ****. There is nobody in this country obsessing over environmental issues. Look at the size of new housing built in this country compared to decades before. Left, right, center, whatever, they're all the same. People are greedy and selfish. If the so-called "left" was worried about the environment, do you think they would live in these McMansions. Show me one person on the "left" that's leading by example.
The "left" is full of ****. There is nobody in this country obsessing over environmental issues. Look at the size of new housing built in this country compared to decades before. Left, right, center, whatever, they're all the same. People are greedy and selfish. If the so-called "left" was worried about the environment, do you think they would live in these McMansions. Show me one person on the "left" that's leading by example.
So, is it fair to say that you believe people that live in mansions are leftists?
So, is it fair to say that you believe people that live in mansions are leftists?
No, but can you name me one member in Congress that actually leads by example? None of them do. You think Pelosi, worth what $100 Mil, is going to give half of that money to environmental causes?
Hell no. Let's be realistic. They're all talk. We have no real leadership in this country.
America is about gettin that MONEY. That's it. Ain't about anything else.
oh whine whine whine. you do realize that cutting EPA regulations, does not mitigate the clean air and clean water acts, nor does it mitigate the anti dumping laws right? once again most of this should be done at the STATE level with the EPA providing oversight.
Except that's not happening. Trump's EPA plans to sue the state of California over what he considers to be overly stringent auto emissions regulations. Tell me how that's leaving it to the states?
Hypocrisy at its finest. Leave it to the states, but only when it benefits his agenda.
Less Federal Regulation in regards to the environment and businesses. Instead leave more to the State.
Everyone keeps saying leave environmental protection to the states. However, do you realize that a) you're going to pay for regulatory oversight one way or another, no matter if that oversight is state or federally operated; and 2) pollutants don't stop at state lines. If New York dumps a boatload of pollutants into its water (won't happen, but I'm just using New York as an example), those pollutants are going to trickle down into my drinking water in southeastern Pennsylvania. Why should I be harmed by another state's lax environmental protection?
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Do away with Lobbyist in Congress and influencing Goverment decisions.
Well, that should go for every special interest, not just environmental interest.
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Originally Posted by RunD1987
Best history of smog if the chimney's of London in the 50's I think. Where it lasted for days and people actually succumbed to the smog.
Bees definitely need to be put back on the Endangered Species List.
Absolutely. We don't have honeybees, we don't eat. But good luck with that, since Monsanto's products are one of the toxins that are killing bees, and Monsanto most likely has more than a few Congress members in its pocket.
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Originally Posted by Old Town FFX
It's really not all that long ago, that in America, rivers caught on fire, and that isn't a wild exaggeration.
Having a clean environment isn't a matter of right or left, it's a matter of we are all humans and all live on this rock. It's a matter of right and wrong.
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Originally Posted by T-310
I have a well.
And your aquifer has the same potential of contamination as any other aquifer. You're not special, nor are you immune to environmental disaster.
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Originally Posted by legalsea
I will remark that Barry Goldwater was firmly for the EPA. He believed, correctly, that to be a Conservative also meant preserving the environment for later generations.
Good for him. Barry Goldwater, bless his soul, would probably be considered a RINO these days; back in the day, though, he was as conservative as they came.
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I also recall one of President Reagan's heads of the EPA, I think James Watt. He was infamous for remarking that Jesus would be made if He returned and we had not used up everything.
James Watt was secretary of the interior; thank God he didn't get away with half of what he was proposing.
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Originally Posted by Jobster
The "left" is full of ****. There is nobody in this country obsessing over environmental issues. Look at the size of new housing built in this country compared to decades before. Left, right, center, whatever, they're all the same. People are greedy and selfish. If the so-called "left" was worried about the environment, do you think they would live in these McMansions. Show me one person on the "left" that's leading by example.
Don't be obtuse. A lot of people of all political persuasions do what we can: live in smaller, older homes, retrofit our homes to be more energy efficient, drive small cars, recycle and reuse, cut consumption. Every little bit counts.
Of course all the anger right now is directed towards Donald Trump and his EPA decisions. But what the left doesn't even realize, is that their anger is (once again) focused in the wrong direction.
The population of China and India make up more than 1/3 of the world's population and their environmental policies and enforcement are disastrous. Even if the U.S. had perfectly clean policies in place, it would be of nearly no effect on the environment if China/India continue to pollute the way they do.
Oh, and for those hearing news about China's commitment to cleaner energy... It's wishful thinking. If you knew how the Chinese government works (or doesn't), with it's top-down corruption, fraudulent payouts, and socially-ingrained disrespect for the environment , you'd realize they'd need a complete re-structuring of their government before they can actually get things done. Admittedly, I don't know much about India's government.
A US citizen does not have much influence over what happens in China or India whereas they do have the ability to influence US policy. Their anger may be misdirected as they should be calling their congressmen, not tweeting about Trump, but bringing up China and India is just a sad deflection.
If the Federal Government creates a shell of environmental regulation for businesses to follow the States can build the nut inside.
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