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Old 02-01-2017, 06:54 AM
 
13,899 posts, read 6,402,705 times
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Lefties are so out there in space. They just make crap up and run around yelling the sky is falling. Only the dumb illiterate Lefties will believe them.
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Old 02-01-2017, 06:56 AM
 
11,913 posts, read 6,495,097 times
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Greywar -- I commend you on your open mindedness and ability to learn and listen to both sides.
But I disagree on the recruitment argument.

ISIS is going to find all the excuses they need for recruitment whether we appease them or not.
Making nice to them is the worst thing we can do. Putting pressure on the Muslim communities around the world
to stand up to and reform the travesties in their hateful supremacist ideologies and Islamic cults makes more sense to me than trying to appease their recruiting tactics.
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:00 AM
 
4,040 posts, read 2,541,768 times
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Personally I think the media and those on the left who are so very anti-Trump that they'll say and believe anything are perpetuating the supposed problem by continuing to call it a "Muslim Ban".

If Muslims from some countries are not banned then by the very definition of words it CANNOT BE a Muslim ban. PERIOD.

You guys are the ones pushing the religious war angle. Most of the Muslims I know are supportive of this TEMPORARY measure. But on TV all day long all you hear is MUSLIM BAN MUSLIM BAN MUSLIM BAN. Then you guys have the gall to say "Trump is starting a religious war and giving ISIS a big gift. The gift is coming from all the manufactured hysteria being played out on TV and in the streets.

Saying "Well the Obama administration" is a cop out of the most idiotic sort. The Obama Administration were labeling with different criteria.

A "different criteria"?? he labeled these countries as "Countries of concern". Concern about WHAT? About terror hotbeds and countries where the government has a history of sponsoring and aiding terrorists. What is it about that criteria that isn't useful in determining which countries immigration should be suspended from until we get a better handle on the security issues we have not dealt with sufficiently?
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:06 AM
 
203 posts, read 245,912 times
Reputation: 472
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
Trump and Bannon's Muslim travel ban had nothing to do with national security.

Though it reinforces ISIS's claims that Americans hate Muslims, I doubt that's news.

What it does is distract our attention from more nefarious things going on.
Might it distract you from asking questions about ISIS oil revenues? Say for instance what countries benefit from doing business with ISIS? ... I looked to see if any thinking people even addressed this point on this board and am surprised to see the answer is no. Come on guys think outside the box.

Let others argue about the President keeping promises or not watching TV and regurgitating talking points given. I sense you are alert to other types of movement so posed the question to you.

Why Islamic State's (ISIS) Oil Revenue Is Plunging Aug 26, 2016 @ 07:14 AM

ISIS and Iraqi Oil Intersection

Quote:


ISIS oil operations in Iraq are more developed that its operations in Syria. Matthew Levitt, an analyst at the Washington Institute, a think tank, said that ISIS had monopolized a wide network of smuggling routes and underground pipelines that were built years ago when Saddam Hussein was in office, employing several of the same logistical tactics as the former Iraqi leader.


Middle East analyst Kyle W. Orton, claims that Ninawa is still the main hub for cross-border oil smuggling operations, while ISIS relies on the local Turkmen population (also known as Turkoman) -- the third largest ethnic minority in Iraq -- to run the smuggling networks. If Mosul falls and can be held by the Iraqi military, it will be a significant blow to ISIS 's ability to fund itself in northern Iraq.
ISIS also steals large supplies of oil from storage tanks, pipelines, and pumping stations. The Financial Times reported that "entrepreneurial Syrians and Iraqis" can make good money smuggling oil into neighboring countries, particularly Turkey, Jordan and even Iran.


Oil from the Qayyarah field near Mosul often makes its way to Turkey. From Turkey, according to many accounts, it makes it to Western markets, both in Europe and even the U.S.
I only raise the question here regardless of if you're left or right because you seem to think broadly and I'm attracted to that.

Oil is very important to USA whether it is the pipeline or this "travel ban" implications. Could I ask you to explore articles of your own choosing and maybe give comment on what it seems to you how this ties in to the notion of our safety? Thanks.

Turkey, Russia, Iraq And Syria: The Black Market Oil Trade That's Fueling ISIS And Dividing The Terrorist Group's Opponents

On 12/09/15 AT 4:32 AM

Quote:
Since Turkey shot down the Russian warplane on Nov. 24, the two countries have accused one another of capturing some of the spoils of the ISIS oil trade while failing to follow through on their pledges to eliminate the militants.
http://www.ibtimes.com/turkey-russia...rorist-2217476

Inside Isis Inc: The journey of a barrel of oil Updated February 29, 2016

Quote:
Isis controls most of Syria’s oil fields and crude is the militant group’s biggest single source of revenue. Here we follow the progress of a barrel of oil from extraction to end user to see how the Isis production system works, who is making money from it, and why it is proving so challenging to disrupt, even with airstrikes.
http://ig.ft.com/sites/2015/isis-oil/

Last edited by Something Needs To Change; 02-01-2017 at 07:27 AM.. Reason: added link from International Business Times & the Financial Times
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:19 AM
 
Location: St Paul
7,713 posts, read 4,720,834 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ponderosa View Post
According to Giuliani the objective is to ban Muslims from entry into the US. The country business was a guise to avoid constitutional conflicts. There is reporting that a much broader ban on visas to the US is in the works that will include persons whose origins are the middle east but come from European or other countries outside the middle east. Again, the ban will be couched in terms that emphasize national origin and not religion.

From a safety perspective, this makes sense if you accept that exclusion is effective and ignore inspiration of internal threats. Most expert opinion I have seen agrees that the real threat is inspiration of people already here through anger over perceived religious discrimination - and not importation of foreigners. So expansion of the ban to "friendly" countries will be greeted with praise by those who think importation is the problem and warnings will come from the security experts who are nearly unanimous that anything that angers vulnerable people already among us is unwise. Trump will doubtless pander to the importation viewpoint. Seeing the other point of view requires empathetic reasoning which Trump does not seem capable of.
This idea that its home grown Muslims who are the real threat is not completely false, but if that's the case, then why let them in if they're going to have children here who will attack us a generation later?
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Old 02-01-2017, 07:26 AM
 
Location: Texas
37,939 posts, read 17,758,230 times
Reputation: 10366
The ban has nothing to do with inflaming our enemies. They are our enemies because we are over there killing their people and intervening in their nations civil wars. It's been that way for decades. We created them. To make it about anything else is absurd.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:01 AM
 
Location: NNJ
15,045 posts, read 10,012,830 times
Reputation: 17194
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise View Post
Why did it take 8 years? Why didn't Obama step in and do the right thing? He had every opportunity to do that.
The interview didn't state why... But I've heard/read that the actual refugee process anywhere between 6 months to up to 2 years. Perhaps its more complex for this individual case because family was also seeking to be relocated.

I think this situation is very common.... Almost every battlefield story out of the Middle east seem to involve locals assisting us.. translators especially. I don't think it reaches high enough to the presidential level. If it did, the President would be too busy making decisions on exceptions for refugees and such and not doing his job.

Either way...

* certainly there exists a vetting process as well as people actively looking at immigration.
* certainly there are Muslim locals risking their lives for us.
* certainly all of the terrorist acts committed thus far have not been through the refugee process.

Whether or not our actions and what is portrayed in the media actually influences the further cooperation of Muslim locals AND ISIS ability to recruit is up to you all to decide. I certainly think it makes sense to me.. .why would I risk my life for a country that isn't mine and doesn't seem to "want" me or even "like" me.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:05 AM
 
21,397 posts, read 10,467,642 times
Reputation: 14063
Quote:
Originally Posted by mountainrose View Post
Greywar -- I commend you on your open mindedness and ability to learn and listen to both sides.
But I disagree on the recruitment argument.

ISIS is going to find all the excuses they need for recruitment whether we appease them or not.
Making nice to them is the worst thing we can do. Putting pressure on the Muslim communities around the world
to stand up to and reform the travesties in their hateful supremacist ideologies and Islamic cults makes more sense to me than trying to appease their recruiting tactics.
Bingo! This is exactly right.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Plymouth Meeting, PA.
5,716 posts, read 3,226,080 times
Reputation: 3123
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
Refugees enter into the US with no vetting process whatsoever? You believe that? Really?

At least, Trump believes that a vetting process EXISTS.. just not good enough in his standards..

thats right its not good enough. If it were up to the bat s**t crazy left, our borders would be totally open.
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Old 02-01-2017, 08:47 AM
 
Location: deafened by howls of 'racism!!!'
52,293 posts, read 34,040,569 times
Reputation: 29036
Quote:
Originally Posted by Toyman at Jewel Lake View Post
Do people that promote this argument have ANY clue just how stupid it sounds to anyone that puts even a few seconds of thought into the issue?

What you're saying is that that there are people that embrace a culture and a political system that have been indoctrinated their entire lives to hate Americans, to believe in the superiority of Islam, that embraces the destruction and subjugation of all those not part of Islam. That embraces the slaughter of gays, the subjugation of women and the rape of children. Who's "ideal man" is someone that practiced pedophilia, committed war on those that showed him charity, embraced rape and slaughter. That have practiced these activities their entire lives, and often have been taught techniques of terrorism.

And of course to avoid "triggering" these people, you propose to import them into this country, hand them billions of taxpayer dollars, encourage them to set up neighborhoods where radical extremism flourishes...and then change our country to accommodate them until they decide to commit terrorist acts? Because that approach has worked so well everywhere it has been tried, right?

Tell ya what? Why don't you go find a rabid pit bull, bring it into YOUR house and let it live in your kids bedroom.
you did a great job of explaining just how ludicrous this insane premise in the OP is. kudos.
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