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Old 02-02-2017, 06:21 AM
 
Location: OH->FL->NJ
17,004 posts, read 12,592,213 times
Reputation: 8923

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Its never as simple as they say. Foreign trade IS good. 4 to 1 trade deficits with China are not. I will never understand this obsession with NAFTA and Mexico when China is a threat far far larger and on more fronts.

He also fails to mention the velocity of money in his examples. Okay that factory down the street has 300 robots and 100 workers instead of 800. Still those 100 jobs are local and paying taxes. Their workers buy a house from Fred, who buys a car from Joe who buys a TV from Ann who buys a toaster from Lisa. There are dozens of local suppliers for that factory with their own employees. They all buy from the local diner...

His shoe example rails to mention its THOUSANDS of factories closed across whole industries.

No one seems interested in balance any more.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Del Rio, TN
39,869 posts, read 26,503,175 times
Reputation: 25771
Quote:
Originally Posted by 18Montclair View Post
And yet...virtually every one of our trading partners has barriers to US products being sold in their country. The EU has a 10% tariff on US automobiles. Other countries have higher ones. Still others have rules and regulations to restrict imports, imposing "inspections" to hold up all imports. And beyond that many have zero health, safety and environmental regulations, as well as extremely poor pay for their workers. All of which leads to an unfair advantage over American workers and companies that build here.

Is that good or bad? Depends. Do you want to save a few pennies on Walmart junk, at the price of decent pay for American workers? For keeping a manufacturing base in this country? I have to wonder why so many that scream for increasing the minimum wage, and the inevitable increase in prices, have so much of an issue paying a bit more to help keep good paying manufacturing jobs in America.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:34 AM
 
Location: Starting a walkabout
2,691 posts, read 1,667,163 times
Reputation: 3135
Quote:
Originally Posted by albion View Post
America exports more than it imports, so, if Trumps puts a high tariff on foreign goods coming into the US, then a high tariff will be put on American goods by way of retaliation.

Nobody wins, everybody loses, it's that simple.
Do you ever research anything before you post something . America does not export more than it imports. That is one of the reasons for our ballooning deficit.

Quote:
In 2015, total U.S. trade with foreign countries was $4.99 trillion. That was $2.23 trillion in exports and $2.76 trillion in imports of both goods and services. The United States was the world's third-largest exporter, after China and the European Union (EU). It's the world's largest importer. (Source: U.S. Census, U.S. Trade in Goods and Services. CIA World Factbook World Rankings)
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Kansas
25,962 posts, read 22,120,062 times
Reputation: 26697
Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez View Post
I've never once seen a group purchase from a business as a form of protest.

Having over $350 BILLION leave our economy each year in no way benefits us.
You just don't get "liberal" math.

Sadly, many never studied US History, Economics or American Government, or retained nothing from it.

I wonder if there is something with the "higher educated" that doesn't allow them to think for themselves, as so much of what they spout is from an unreliable news sources or someone that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, and they can't decipher the difference between fact and fiction.

When I was in high school, long ago and far away, we learned that tariffs were placed on incoming foreign goods so as not to undercut our own businesses. This was considered a good thing and was working beautifully for our country. It was also fair to put our citizens first. We cannot continue to buy cheap Chinese junk and see our jobs leave, because at some point, we will have no income to even buy the junk coming in.

When we were buying American goods, we had good paying jobs. People were able to pay more than they would for Chinese junk. Think about it, people were not in debt like they are now when American products were being produced and purchased here. Do the math! Not "liberal" math as it lies!
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:47 AM
 
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,476,450 times
Reputation: 12187
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_tax


The tariff war that ended sales of the iconic VW bus in the USA.
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Old 02-02-2017, 06:51 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,012,426 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
I don't buy what you're saying.
The Basics Of Tariffs And Trade Barriers | Investopedia


It's a lot of info. but worth the read given the role that tariffs may play in our economy in the near future.

This is not a win win for Americans. It is a naive, simplistic approach that probably won't do what the tariffs are intended to do.
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:04 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,012,426 times
Reputation: 15559
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnywhereElse View Post
You just don't get "liberal" math.

Sadly, many never studied US History, Economics or American Government, or retained nothing from it.

I wonder if there is something with the "higher educated" that doesn't allow them to think for themselves, as so much of what they spout is from an unreliable news sources or someone that doesn't have a clue what they are talking about, and they can't decipher the difference between fact and fiction.

When I was in high school, long ago and far away, we learned that tariffs were placed on incoming foreign goods so as not to undercut our own businesses. This was considered a good thing and was working beautifully for our country. It was also fair to put our citizens first. We cannot continue to buy cheap Chinese junk and see our jobs leave, because at some point, we will have no income to even buy the junk coming in.

When we were buying American goods, we had good paying jobs. People were able to pay more than they would for Chinese junk. Think about it, people were not in debt like they are now when American products were being produced and purchased here. Do the math! Not "liberal" math as it lies!

What you learned in high school was basic, simple theories. You don't get into the full complexities of a tariff policy.

Free trade benefits consumers through increased choice and reduced prices, but because the global economy brings with it uncertainty, many governments may impose tariffs and other trade barriers to protect industry. There is a delicate balance between the pursuit of efficiencies and the government's need to ensure low unemployment.

That last statement says it all. Given what an American factory worker expects to get paid in wages and benefits, USA may not be able to produce that cheap t-shirt, pair of socks or underwear. So it will jack up the prices in the long run. I find it hard to believe a work force that is going to demand at minimum $25/hr. to work in those factories producing those basic goods, will produce goods at prices that lower income families can pay.

You all admire Trump as a businessman. He had a product line of ties, shirts, etc. and his daughter has a product line of clothing, accessories, etc. They made the choice to go oversees to produce those goods. They chose not to build a plant in middle America and employ American workers because it wasn't cost efficient or beneficial for them to do so. Why is it all of a sudden? The only way it will become that is if they can raise their prices to consumer. I know they both produced higher end stuff...but that's even more telling. They are appealing to a higher end market & they still didn't think it was cost effective to build a plant and employ American workers.
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Old 02-02-2017, 07:10 AM
 
45,676 posts, read 24,012,426 times
Reputation: 15559
Also -- back in the olden days when folks made money working in a plant, technology wasn't what it is today. Most processes are much more streamlined & the number of people needed in a factory just isn't like the olden days.

Even if plants start popping up in those areas where high unemployment still exists, they may not be enough to really stimulate growth in that area.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:06 AM
 
Location: Chicago
6,160 posts, read 5,711,339 times
Reputation: 6193
The people who want to buy American often don't want to pay American prices.
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Old 02-02-2017, 09:23 AM
 
29,483 posts, read 14,650,004 times
Reputation: 14448
Quote:
Originally Posted by Freak80 View Post
I'm not better off if I lose my $20/hr manufacturing job and end up working at Wal Mart or McDonalds for $10/hr with no benefits.

That's what globalization has done to a huge number of American workers. But they can save 20% on a hair dryer, so it's all good in your mind. Your "let them eat cake" attitude is what helped elect Trump.

People just don't get it. Now they will tell you to retrain, get educated, find a job that is useful, yada , yada , yada, ... they are just clueless.
The scales have tipped though, and globalization has woven itself through country after country that it can't be changed. It's a catch 22, pull the plug on it and economies will crumble , it will take years to rebuild. And most of our country is too short sighted to think that far ahead. So we will continue to plow ahead as we are, more and more people being underemployed or just out of work and when things get really bad they will start proposing a "universal income" to fix it. SMH....
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