Why is nobody complaining about the Israeli ban in some Islamic Countries? (Congress, middle east)
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Muslims get a huge pass on most things. Liberals love them (until they go hiking in Iraq) and shuas tiven Israel too.
Its mainly because the Left, and I dont mean people who have traditional liberal characteristis are always in a state of flux, looking for the latest thing to be outraged over. Little c non religous conservative are usually looking for stability, thats why typical Aerospace/Mechanical Engineers such as myself and the people I work with rarely classify themselves as Liberal. We can be very liberal on items such as gay marriageans pro-choice but things like uncontrolled Ilegal immigration, or radical progressive ideas dont usually fly. Somethings that already work dont require a revolutuon.
So prove us wrong. Prove all of these people are complaining about it in these countries. I'll wait for your sources. You claim he's ignorant so you must have loads and loads of examples at the ready, right?
He said nobody is
I'd only need one example.
As I said earlier, it's about people you encounter. I can't imagine the OP is having a lot of discussions with Muslims. I'm not either, but I'll guess I have a lot more than him
I might be wrong, but I think it's likely that I'm right.
You do know that there are Israeli Muslims, right?
And you also know that one of the tenants on Islam is to visit Mecca once in a lifetime?
And you also know that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia?
And you know that Saudi Arabia is one of the countries that doesn't recognize Israel and so won't accept Israeli passports, right?
Sooo...does it make sense that some people might want Israeli Muslims to be able to go to Mecca?
I don't know if anything here says specifically that anyone is "complaining about the Israeli ban" but
Mithal Al-Alusi
Quote:
In September 2008, he again visited Israel and spoke at a conference on counter-terrorism organised by the IDC, a private college in Herzellia. He praised Israel, saying "In Israel, there is no occupation, there is liberalism" and criticised Iran, saying it was continually meddling in Iraq. He called for intelligence sharing between Iraq, Israel, the United States, Jordan, Turkey, and Kuwait.
Or Salim Mansur
Quote:
In 2008, Mansur congratulated Israel for its 60th anniversary, and declared that the Jewish state "deserves admiration": "Israel is a tiny sliver of land in a vast tempest-ridden sea of the Arab-Muslim world, and yet it is here the ancient world's most enduring story is made fresh again by Jews to live God's covenant with Abraham as told in their sacred literature."[11] In 2010, he wrote: "The story of modern Israel, as many have noted, is a miracle unlike any [...] It is a robust and inclusive democracy, and is at the leading edge of science and technology [...] What hypocrites demand of Israelis and the scrutiny Israel is subjected to by them, they would not dare make of any other nation."
Sound like people who can't to keep Israeli's out of Islamic states?
Last edited by CaseyB; 02-03-2017 at 03:21 AM..
Reason: rude
As I said earlier, it's about people you encounter. I can't imagine the OP is having a lot of discussions with Muslims. I'm not either, but I'll guess I have a lot more than him
I might be wrong, but I think it's likely that I'm right.
You do know that there are Israeli Muslims, right?
And you also know that one of the tenants on Islam is to visit Mecca once in a lifetime?
And you also know that Mecca is in Saudi Arabia?
And you know that Saudi Arabia is one of the countries that doesn't recognize Israel and so won't accept Israeli passports, right?
Sooo...does it make sense that some people might want Israeli Muslims to be able to go to Mecca?
I don't know if anything here says specifically that anyone is "complaining about the Israeli ban" but
Mithal Al-Alusi
Or Salim Mansur
Sound like people who can't to keep Israeli's out of Islamic states?
Except you missed the larger point but I suspect you would have anyway. The one offs as you provided isn't even close to a significant majority. Now, to be fair I didn't say that but yes, the implication was there and while you may think you won the argument by citing a couple, the larger issue still persists. But yes, in the most strict sense of my challenge, you did provide information. I tend to not be so literal but okay.
There is a tacit understanding by many, particularly on the left, that is okay or even acceptable for countries to deny Israelis visitation. They point to Israel's stance on settlements or Israel's treatment of Palestine. Any number of conflicts actually. But the deeper understanding and which I and I suspect the OP was alluding to was that the political left in this country think that's perfectly acceptable because they do not like Israel whether it be for the aforementioned reasons or some other reason. Yet when we decide to have a temporary halt in order to ensure better vetting from some countries, we're xenophobes, we're racists, we're any number of things they decide to label us as but decline to do so for others. Case in point, when you point to these countries and their policies, they say "eh" and move on or at best, they might give a list of grievances they have against Israel. But at its core is this deep hypocrisy. They believe these countries have the sovereign right to deny Israelis visitation (and they do) but we do not? Why? Because it's politically convenient since it was Trump who put forth the proposal?
Last edited by CaseyB; 02-03-2017 at 03:22 AM..
Reason: response to deletion
I have noticed from some on the left, an element of anti-semitism which confuses me because when did that flip?? But anyway, I doubt you'll get too much sympathy for Israel from those on the left. They generally view Israel as something to cheer against and/or openly oppose. Some make the distinction it's not the Jews but the country but some don't even bother.
Lol. Hehehe. You're not to bright on your politics. In populism right or left, Jews have to be worried. Why? They are generally accused due to thier commercial mercantile practices and wealth. In left spectrum for example Jews faced plenty of backlash in communism. For example Stalin purges removed plenty of Jews as party members, which Adolf Hitler as a fascists admired Stalin hatred of the Jewish race. Jews made up bulk of the bolshivicks. Also communism has a stance against Israel is is generally anti zionist. If you were a Jew and from Poland and just survived being exterminated. Do you want to go back to your country which is now being controlled by a man who is just as evil as Hitler or worse? This was the case for many Jews in eastern Europe after the end of funding world war 2 and Soviet conquest. When Castro took power, Jews had to flee Cuba in an heart beat why? Castro was rounding up men and having them executed for not sharing wealth with people. Jews had the top wealth in Cuba during the 1950s. Americans are afraid of populism because if it tilts right or left, people will be killed. And populism gave the world the Soviet Union and nazi Germany which both destroyed Jewish culture in Europe.
Except you missed the larger point but I suspect you would have anyway. The one offs as you provided isn't even close to a significant majority. Now, to be fair I didn't say that but yes, the implication was there and while you may think you won the argument by citing a couple, the larger issue still persists. But yes, in the most strict sense of my challenge, you did provide information. I tend to not be so literal but okay.
Again, there needs to be some ability to draw inferences.
These are just the people I found by googling for 10 seconds. The people to be included on a wikipedia page.
None of the Muslims that I've talked to, who find this "Israeli ban" ridiculous are included on that page. I think it's safe to assume that there are thousands or millions like them who also don't show up on a web search.
When did we go from "nobody" to "significant majority"?
Would you define "significant majority" for me? Is there a "significant majority" of people complaining about the "muslim ban"
Quote:
There is a tacit understanding by many, particularly on the left, that is okay or even acceptable for countries to deny Israelis visitation. They point to Israel's stance on settlements or Israel's treatment of Palestine. Any number of conflicts actually. But the deeper understanding and which I and I suspect the OP was alluding to was that the political left in this country think that's perfectly acceptable because they do not like Israel whether it be for the aforementioned reasons or some other reason. Yet when we decide to have a temporary halt in order to ensure better vetting from some countries, we're xenophobes, we're racists, we're any number of things they decide to label us as but decline to do so for others. Case in point, when you point to these countries and their policies, they say "eh" and move on or at best, they might give a list of grievances they have against Israel. But at its core is this deep hypocrisy. They believe these countries have the sovereign right to deny Israelis visitation (and they do) but we do not? Why? Because it's politically convenient since it was Trump who put forth the proposal?
Ask those people, not me
I'll say this, though.
I think it has a lot to do with
Lol. Hehehe. You're not to bright on your politics. In populism right or left, Jews have to be worried. Why? They are generally accused due to thier commercial mercantile practices and wealth. In left spectrum for example Jews faced plenty of backlash in communism. For example Stalin purges removed plenty of Jews as party members, which Adolf Hitler as a fascists admired Stalin hatred of the Jewish race. Jews made up bulk of the bolshivicks. Also communism has a stance against Israel is is generally anti zionist. If you were a Jew and from Poland and just survived being exterminated. Do you want to go back to your country which is now being controlled by a man who is just as evil as Hitler or worse? This was the case for many Jews in eastern Europe after the end of funding world war 2 and Soviet conquest. When Castro took power, Jews had to flee Cuba in an heart beat why? Castro was rounding up men and having them executed for not sharing wealth with people. Jews had the top wealth in Cuba during the 1950s. Americans are afraid of populism because if it tilts right or left, people will be killed. And populism gave the world the Soviet Union and nazi Germany which both destroyed Jewish culture in Europe.
And the Jewish vote has been steady for the left for a number of years. Thus my question, why did the left abandon Jews and why has this thread of antisemitism been allowed to fester in the political left? It's no secret the Jewish vote has aligned with the left for years but more importantly, the left have aligned with the Jews. My point (which you missed) was when did this become something out of favor? Why is the left deciding Israel and for many, including on this forum, Jews themselves suddenly considered the enemy or something to oppose? And thanks for the history lesson I already knew but there have been plenty of populist style presidents even in this country who didn't turn into Hitler, Stalin, or Castro. Many on the left actually. The irony here is it could be argued that American populists spawned progressives thanks to FDR.
So perhaps you're not too bright on your politics?
Again, there needs to be some ability to draw inferences.
These are just the people I found by googling for 10 seconds. The people to be included on a wikipedia page.
None of the Muslims that I've talked to, who find this "Israeli ban" ridiculous are included on that page. I think it's safe to assume that there are thousands or millions like them who also don't show up on a web search.
When did we go from "nobody" to "significant majority"?
Would you define "significant majority" for me? Is there a "significant majority" of people complaining about the "muslim ban"
Ask those people, not me
I'll say this, though.
I think it has a lot to do with
I'm going to put a pin in this and come back later to read this simply because I've been suffering from insomnia and now need sleep. I'll get back to what you wrote.
But I'll leave with this. It was never really about the muslims you cited in your other response. The larger point was about the hypocrisy. The American political left seems okay with these countries banning Israelis because it's their sovereign right and for their reasons whatever they may be (listed in my last post) but America isn't afforded any such sovereignty? We must allow all who want to enter to do so? The hysteria over a temporary ban from countries who cannot properly aid in vetting the people wanting to visit OUR sovereign country is ridiculous and smacks of hypocrisy when they have no issue with others doing it.
Being Jewish is already a ban in some countries for years.
The left didn't care and most Jewish people are smart enough not to go there.
Nobody seems to care about the ban. For years I have posted about that on this forum and mentioned Israeli athletes who are denied to compete in WTA tour in these countries.
Muslims don't take a visum denial as that doesn't help their cause.
Muslims don't seem to be willing to help each other by other muslim countries helping the ones in need, etc.
Um, probably because most of us don't live in those countries...their values are not our values...their governing documents are not our Constitution...their history is not our history.
Off the top of my head. I'm sure there are many more reasons.
But you go ape **** at anyone who doesn't want them to bring their values to our Nation.
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