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Old 02-09-2017, 10:13 AM
 
Location: On a Long Island in NY
7,800 posts, read 10,107,338 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe1994 View Post
What does the majority have to do with American identity? I mean black people are Americans too. American doesn't just mean white lol.

Black Americans have a history of being here 400 years. The majority of black families have been here longer proportionally than any race except native Americans for that matter.
To many on the right, and especially Trump supporters being American = being White.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:14 AM
 
Location: Hougary, Texberta
9,019 posts, read 14,291,129 times
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I would say the difference is terms. What you're referring to would generally be called patriotism. Love for your country. Nationalism would be usually understood as the support of country, but is more aggressive and usually defined on an exclusionary basis, not just as "nationalism". So White Nationalism, would be the support for a country only of whites. Black Nationalism would be support for a country of blacks. 1%erism would be a country only for rich people, etc.


We've moved from patriotism, to jingoism after 9/11 where it's my country, right or wrong, and if you don't like it, f u. Now we're splintering further as people get caught in their own echo chambers.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:19 AM
 
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I think the term is BS and the left and the media have used the term paint with a broad brush Americans who happen to be white but are also nationalist in the ECONOMIC sense, meaning they want less illegal immigration, less globalization, America first and to foster an American culture regardless of race.

But because there are some racist clowns such as Richard Spencer who actually are white nationalists and racist, then the media uses him to smear other Americans who just want a healthy non-racist economic nationalism.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Baldwin County, AL
2,446 posts, read 1,387,019 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe1994 View Post
I wasn't talking about white nationalism or black nationalism. I'm talking about nationalism not racism. American nationalism for that matter. A specific race. And segregation only hurt black Americans. But I was talking about nationalism in favor of america. I'm a black person in favor of american nationalism.
Well, OP, there is a big difference between mere "nationalism", and "white nationalism".


Nationalism- Definition- Nationalism is a complex, multidimensional concept involving a shared communal identification with one's nation. It is a political ideology oriented towards gaining and maintaining self-governance, or full sovereignty, over a territory of historical significance to the group (such as its homeland). (Not Racist)


White Nationalism- Definition -"White nationalism is a type of nationalism or pan-nationalism which holds the belief that white people are a race and seeks to develop and maintain a white national identity. Its proponents identify with and are attached to the concept of a white nation." (Racist)

If you are a "white nationalist" or "black nationalist" or whatever, then you are certainly going to be seen as racist.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:30 AM
 
76 posts, read 21,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WIHS2006 View Post
To many on the right, and especially Trump supporters being American = being White.
I don't really think so I'm black and a trump supporter ive never associated America with with. Ive noticed liberals do that more often which was odd and a bit offensive considering most black Americans are as american as it gets. Also more black american men supported president Donald Trump than previous republican candidates. I don't think they thought america=white.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:35 AM
 
76 posts, read 21,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8won6 View Post
I don't want to completely derail but integration hurt blacks more that segregation did. Under segregation, blacks had more business and business districts and some semblance of an economy. We fell for the okey doke of integration and we basically ended up giving all our money to white businesses.

And yeah, i guess i reading the thread title on OP wrong. You are separating white w/ nationalism and blacks w/ nationalism, but you want to discuss nationalism alone? Of course, nationalism by itself is okay, but you added the racial element and implications yourself.
I think that is because of many other reasons for that.

And yes what I'm talkiñg about is nationalism. Not racism. I don't see anyhow how black Americans or white Americans could be nationalist. As neither have a common country they're racially related as most Americans are mixed different European or African nations. The terminology is wrong for black and white Americans IMO.


I'm talking about being pro america and putting america first etc... Nothing to do with race.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:41 AM
 
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The media is conflating nationalism, which doesn't regard race with white nationalism, which is racist, in order to smear nationalism in the US.

There is nothing wrong with non-racist, nationalism which I assume a lot of Americans are regardless of race. I mean I think the media wants to equate it with fascism or something stupid like that but in reality just wanting the country to be a sovereign nation that protects it's borders, doesn't want to engage in shoddy free trade deals and wants to distance itself from the ill effects of globalization, is somehow "nationalist" now. LOL.
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Old 02-09-2017, 10:58 AM
 
1,478 posts, read 788,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe1994 View Post
Like why if someone is white the word nationalist is synonymous with racist or supramcist? I've looked up the term nationalist. I'm definitely a nationalist and don't see how a black person couldnt or would have the same beliefs? I also don't see why some equate the name to racist?
PART 1


You realize you are not supposed to ask these questions as an American (United Statesian more accurately), more especially for any of those that are products of most American secondary public schools (institutes of indoctrination). That is why most American public secondary (high schools) schools have fill-in-the-blank homework and exams rather than contrast and comparison essays for assignments and exams.

An American mind is trained to emotionally respond to a given cue. All cultures do this more or less but it is particularly pronounced among Americans with their sports teams two party political system.

That is why I say the last thing the two parties should do if they want to retain a slave master grip over the minds of their subjects is to teach philosophy and economics to all students. Philosophy even more than science teaches critical thinking skills. Science is taught like theology, you are given as unquestionable fact the constructural blocks in which to use to resolve any problem. You can not question those blocks (tools, concepts) given you in their capacity to resolve the dilemma.



I personally hate doing philosophy but I do respect it as a field that supposedly seeks to endow man with greater wisdom. It is not unsurprising the people that question various aspects of the natural sciences the most are not religious people but atheist into philosophy.

The modern nation-state is a relatively new thing in human history. One characteristic of it is clearly defined, invisible, lines of state boundaries. So, Trump could have a wall built along that invisible line along Mexico which is clearly measured, as opposed to a general region that is more or less understood to be part of Mexico or part of the USA (which could lead to disputes itself).

In Afrocentric university courses, within the social science of Africology, the term "nations" are used in place of "ethnicity." So, in those courses it is taught that the United States is a country made up of many nations. A nation has certain characteristics, it shares a common language, it shares a common religion, and it may or may not have similar phenotypic features.

This is not an incorrect use of the word nation but in fact a very old and venerable use of the word nation. In a thread in the religious forum I think I pointed out that Catholicism, traditional Catholicism that is, has viewed itself as the fulfillment of ancient Judaism with Christ, and in fact are the nation of Israelites extended into non-Hebrew peoples. The nation of ancient Israelites were supposedly mostly Hebrews but supposedly with some non-Hebrew ethnic people as part of them.

The Coptic Orthodox which I will eventually convert to are a nation. But they are not a state. They are more a nation than ethnic Black-Americans who are technically in Africology viewed as one of the distinct nations within the United States of America. But I would say ethnic Black-Americans have become increasingly more and more divided over the years, particularly over "shared values." Once upon a time the Protestant religion, particularly the "Black Church," formed the basic foundation of Black-Americas shared values. That no longer is true today. The Democratic Party controls their minds by a major extent. Maybe rap music controls the remainder of their minds, I don't know.

Ethnic Jews, often divided on shared values themselves, are a nation. But up until the formation of the State of Israel they had no statehood, they were like Black-Americans and European Roma (Gypsies) and the Coptic Orthodox Christians in that sense. Statehoodless.




The problem with "white nationalism" is not merely its connection to white supremacy but its logical incoherency with the white nations of the past. There was no single "white nation." The white nations were diverse and made up of many nations, or ethnicities if you prefer, such as the Italians, Portuguese, Dutch, Russians, Polish, Scottish, the English and so forth. And those white nations warred ferociously with one another for centuries.

"White nationalism" is more a recent construct in human history born out of white supremacy in the colonized worlds of the Americas in particular. White people colonized the whole earth but I think white nationalism really grew out of the Americas, particularly the United States of America. The Germans probably picked up on it later.




Anyways, in PART 2 I'll provide an academically approved philosophy website for source citing.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:02 AM
Status: "119 N/A" (set 24 days ago)
 
12,962 posts, read 13,676,205 times
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Because Barack Obama would have never put Louis Farrakhan in the White House. White Nationalist believe their views deserve to be part of the mainstream. Black Nationalist have no such delusions.
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Old 02-09-2017, 11:13 AM
 
8,418 posts, read 7,414,580 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
The media is conflating nationalism, which doesn't regard race with white nationalism, which is racist, in order to smear nationalism in the US.
No, the "media" isn't conflating nationalism with white nationalism.

It's some other people who are doing so - trying to make white nationalism more cuddly and acceptable.

It's sort of like trying to make white supremacy palatable by saying that there's nothing wrong with seeking to be superior, as in trying to improve oneself.

If you still don't see the difference, ponder this: American nationalism is inclusive, white nationalism is exclusive.
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