U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 02-11-2017, 06:43 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,233 posts, read 6,404,180 times
Reputation: 12541

Advertisements

Arrest leads to renewed criticism of refugee policy

A Syrian refugee was arrested at an Edmonton, Alberta, Canada swimming pool after sexually assaulting approximately six girls under the age of 16 at a private pool party at the Edmonton Mall. This seems to fall into a pattern, see Sexual Emergency - Rapist Who Couldn't Control Himself has Conviction Overturned. To be fair to the refugees their experience is in cultures that demand very little self-control. Also in their cultures, women are totally subservient. And maybe, for all we know, swimming pools are more difficult environments for these people.

I question whether mixing in people from such cultures, without extensive individual interviews, is a good idea. There may be many who come to make a better live for themselves and our country. But I think the burden is on them to demonstrate it, not on us to prove otherwise.

Last edited by jbgusa; 02-11-2017 at 07:29 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 02-11-2017, 07:03 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,524 posts, read 3,616,247 times
Reputation: 8478
Why must you deflect from the story and bring up Trump? This has nothing to do with him.

Your criminal, your country. Stick to the topic.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 07:09 PM
 
2,365 posts, read 2,292,371 times
Reputation: 3148
Migrating to progressive western countries should be tough & involve thorough vetting. Legal immigration through student, work, business visas to usa is already tough & I have been through this entire process. Going from visa to green card/citizenship is also a long process so I value my citizenship a lot. Took me lot of effort, skills & hardwork to get here & stay here. It was my decision to move here & stay back so I was already aware of western values & fully prepared to blend in.

But refugees & asylum seekers get handed over permanent status right away. Speaking local language, special skills, education are not required. So expect them to walk all over you & take advantage of your hospitality. Also, where are you going to deport them if they break the law since their countries are already war-torn. They are in for a huge cultural shock & so are you. Legal immigrants are self-learning mature adults so you can expect them to behave themselves. But bringing in refugees is like adopting a baby. Train them, feed them, cleanup their mess, tolerate their tantrums, teach them your language, attend to their medical needs & dont complain if they still cannot stand you.

Arab countries have more money than us & they can easily take in all the refugees but unlike us they are not ashamed of their past or present so you cannot guilt them into accepting their refugee brothers, sisters who will have no problem blending into similar arab countries. We have to play savior for entire world. But we are unsuccessful in washing away our guilt because how can you feel good about saving others at the cost of sacrificing your own family? The curses of your own family will neutralize all the good you did to save strangers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 07:21 PM
 
Location: Austin TX
6,524 posts, read 3,616,247 times
Reputation: 8478
This man is the father of six children, and has only been in Canada a year. It's just flabbergasting to imagine a father of six molesting so many little girls at a public pool.

Even more disturbing was reading this Canadian newspaper article on this crime in which they devote more time discussing the "unfairness" of identifying the perp as a refugee than the actual crime itself.

Storm of reaction to news Syrian refugee charged with sex assaults - Edmonton - CBC News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 07:24 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,233 posts, read 6,404,180 times
Reputation: 12541
Quote:
Originally Posted by theluckygal View Post
Migrating to progressive western countries should be tough & involve thorough vetting. Legal immigration through student, work, business visas to usa is already tough & I have been through this entire process. Going from visa to green card/citizenship is also a long process so I value my citizenship a lot. Took me lot of effort, skills & hardwork to get here & stay here. It was my decision to move here & stay back so I was already aware of western values & fully prepared to blend in.
I am repping this post. I admire your effort and persistence. I am sure you are a valuable addition to our country. One of my grandmothers was an immigrant, and the parents of my other grandparents were immigrants. One family was a shoemaker in Yonkers, the son of the other became a dentist. The third became a leading architect in the Five Towns of Long Island. All arrived with nothing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theluckygal View Post
But refugees & asylum seekers get handed over permanent status right away. Speaking local language, special skills, education are not required. So expect them to walk all over you & take advantage of your hospitality. Also, where are you going to deport them if they break the law since their countries are already war-torn. They are in for a huge cultural shock & so are you. Legal immigrants are self-learning mature adults so you can expect them to behave themselves. But bringing in refugees is like adopting a baby. Train them, feed them, cleanup their mess, tolerate their tantrums, teach them your language, attend to their medical needs & dont complain if they still cannot stand you.

Arab countries have more money than us & they can easily take in all the refugees but unlike us they are not ashamed of their past or present so you cannot guilt them into accepting their refugee brothers, sisters who will have no problem blending into similar arab countries. We have to play savior for entire world. But we are unsuccessful in washing away our guilt because how can you feel good about saving others at the cost of sacrificing your own family? The curses of your own family will neutralize all the good you did to save strangers.
Certain people want those refugees to feel good about themselves. Invariably that warm, fuzzy feeling comes from other people's money and efforts. My rabbi likes to preach about a boy on a beach who throws starfish back into the water after the tide recedes. An elder tells him he can't possibly do that for all in the species in such a predicament. The boy says "it sure made a difference to that starfish." The problem with the story is that the boy is not hurting himself by throwing the starfish into the ocean so if it feels good it does no harm.

Some people like to do what feels good, not what makes sense. The U.S. cannot handle approximately 2 billion people from failed states. It is too bad that human misery exists. We just cannot solve the world's problems without destroying ourselves. Bringing in people who don't understand and cannot adapt to our culture will put us and them into a world of hurt.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 07:55 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,962 posts, read 2,763,264 times
Reputation: 5144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
I agree on the title of the thread and I renamed it. That being said many people would be afraid to get involved, for fear of violence. Especially in a country such as Canada, which is relatively lenient on this kind of activity.
Thank you for renaming the thread. You say Canada is relatively more lenient to sexual assault. Do you mean more lenient than the U.S. and if so do you have a link to back that up? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing as I've never read any study comparing the two countries and sexual assault convictions or lack of convictions don't tend to make the national news.

I was a juror in a sexual assault case about 4 years ago but I can't talk about jury deliberations as doing so is illegal in Canada. So, I'll just say the man got a fair trial.

I am very much in favor of the current efforts by the Canadian government to bring Yazidi victims of rape and sexual slavery by ISIS to Canada:

Rampant corruption on the ground biggest hurdle to bringing Yazidis to Canada, expert warns - Politics - CBC News

Canada is following the lead of Germany in this regard. Germany took in 1,400 Yazidi women and girls (one as young as 8) and they are receiving treatment for their trauma:

'They raped us; they killed our men': Psychologist helps Yazidi women recover from trauma of ISIS captivity - World - CBC News
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 08:16 PM
 
Location: New York Area
16,233 posts, read 6,404,180 times
Reputation: 12541
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Thank you for renaming the thread. You say Canada is relatively more lenient to sexual assault. Do you mean more lenient than the U.S. and if so do you have a link to back that up? I'm not agreeing or disagreeing as I've never read any study comparing the two countries and sexual assault convictions or lack of convictions don't tend to make the national news.
Canada's sentences are generally lower. Homulka is out of jail, for instance. Not a chance she'd be out in the U.S. Is Bernardo and/or Picton still in jail?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I was a juror in a sexual assault case about 4 years ago but I can't talk about jury deliberations as doing so is illegal in Canada. So, I'll just say the man got a fair trial.
Without identifying the person was there a conviction?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
I am very much in favor of the current efforts by the Canadian government to bring Yazidi victims of rape and sexual slavery by ISIS to Canada:
Yazidis in general are victims. Their religion is more quietistic and less violent than Islam. I support, in general, bringing them over. I have more of a problem bringing combatants in a civil war over.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 08:47 PM
 
Location: Canada
3,962 posts, read 2,763,264 times
Reputation: 5144
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Canada's sentences are generally lower. Homulka is out of jail, for instance. Not a chance she'd be out in the U.S. Is Bernardo and/or Picton still in jail?

Without identifying the person was there a conviction?

Yazidis in general are victims. Their religion is more quietistic and less violent than Islam. I support, in general, bringing them over. I have more of a problem bringing combatants in a civil war over.
Homulka never killed anyone but her sentence would have been a lot longer if the extent of her involvement had been known before she made a deal. Bernardo and Picton will die in prison.

~~~~

There were two trials in a row involving different sexual assaults. The man died in prison a couple of years later. The evidence in one of the trials was weak. In the other trial the evidence was strong. Jurors were unaware that there were two trials.

~~~~

Former combatants were disqualified from being selected in the Canadian Syrian refugee program. To further ensure that, single male refugees were excluded with a very few exceptions such as at risk gay Muslims.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-11-2017, 09:12 PM
 
18,438 posts, read 10,497,438 times
Reputation: 13510
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
Canada's sentences are generally lower. Homulka is out of jail, for instance. Not a chance she'd be out in the U.S.
Horse pucky!

ICE releases 19,723 criminal illegals, 208 convicted of murder, 900 of sex crimes | Washington Examiner

10 twisted murderers who were freed then killed again

Just one state out of fifty: Killers who pleaded insanity walk free from state hospital in Colorado – The Denver Post

If you'd just look way up there, you'd see that high road you apparently think you're on.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 02-12-2017, 07:20 AM
 
Location: New York Area
16,233 posts, read 6,404,180 times
Reputation: 12541
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Homulka never killed anyone but her sentence would have been a lot longer if the extent of her involvement had been known before she made a deal. Bernardo and Picton will die in prison.
I'm not Canadian and know little about Canada. But isn't there the faint hope clause?

~~~~

Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
There were two trials in a row involving different sexual assaults. The man died in prison a couple of years later. The evidence in one of the trials was weak. In the other trial the evidence was strong. Jurors were unaware that there were two trials.
I don't think jurors are ever held for two trials unless, perhaps a case involving defendants for the same incident is severed.

~~~~
Quote:
Originally Posted by cdnirene View Post
Former combatants were disqualified from being selected in the Canadian Syrian refugee program. To further ensure that, single male refugees were excluded with a very few exceptions such as at risk gay Muslims.
How would the authorities know if someone is lying about combatant status?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Politics and Other Controversies
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top