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Old 02-15-2017, 11:56 AM
 
31,907 posts, read 26,961,756 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southeasttexas View Post
Obama did nothing to prevent his Russian friends from taking Crimea by force? Why was Obama in bed with the Russians?? Anyone??

Just what would you have wanted Obama or any other POTUS to do with that hot mess of a situation.


First and foremost it Crimea is a European matter if anyone's and Germany couldn't largely have been bothered. So why should we step in?


Coming off the disaster that was the Iraq War II, Americans had then and still do *NO* belly for military intervention in matters that do not directly affect the United States.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:00 PM
 
13,602 posts, read 4,929,902 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kapie9969 View Post
I remember things being different.Crimea has a large Russian speaking population and there was an election about if they wanted to be Ukrainian and be forced to speak a different language or go with Russia.
.
OK, if the Spanish-speaking people in Texas approve, I guess you'll have no objection if the Mexican army invades US territory.


Anyway, the "official" vote total in Crimea was 83% turnout with 96% voting to join Russia. Kind of like when Kim Jong-eun was elected with 100% of the vote. If they were going to make up numbers, they should have been smart enough to make it a bit more realistic
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:08 PM
 
Location: Houston
5,993 posts, read 3,732,828 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southeasttexas View Post
Obama did nothing to prevent his Russian friends from taking Crimea by force? Why was Obama in bed with the Russians?? Anyone??
There's no way you're going to succeed with this deflection attempt. We're discussing Trump, not Obama. I know, I know... you wish you could pin this on him and get your savior out of the mess he's in but people are not buying the lies coming out of the GOP anymore. If I were you I'd quit before you look anymore foolish than you do right now.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Central NJ and PA
5,067 posts, read 2,276,892 times
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Like most border/sovereignty issues, this goes waaaay back. Crimea had been an independent republic of USSR, as was Ukraine, until in 1954 Crimea was 'given' to Ukraine. In 1991, a referendum was held as to whether Ukraine (which now included Crimea) should separate from Russia. The vote was 'yes' for separation, but the Crimean vote was only 30-something percent to leave. For years, Crimea tried to become independent from Ukraine, without success. Russia finally agreed to back Ukranian control of Crimea in exchange for access to the Black Sea and it's fleet.


Crimea has an ethnic Russian majority; while they're mostly bilingual, they identify themselves more as Russian than Ukrainian. For years there were reports of discrimination. Protests broke out in 2006 when US Military arrived in Crimea for NATO exercises, and other anti-Ukraine protests continued off and on for years. Finally, after Russian invasion, a vote was held and Crimea voted to return to Russia. Many claim the vote was not representative because of the presence of Russian soldiers - that they forced the vote. Who knows?


Although legally Russia was wrong in invading, it's another one of those regional messes. One that we made worse by meddling in the removal of the Ukraine's president and their elections. Obama was smart not to take it any further than sanctions, imho.
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Old 02-15-2017, 12:41 PM
 
2,528 posts, read 1,656,762 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigCreek View Post
What Ukrainian oil resources?? A simple Google check will tell you that Ukraine only has enough oil to cover 10-15% of her needs. For gas, the figure's 25%. That's why Ukraine still buys gas from Russia, and why Russia used this as a tool to punish Ukraine for striving for a non-corrupt leader and true independence. Ukraine urged converting oil and gas burning furnaces to wood-burners, and cut down much of her national forests to help meet the demand for firewood. Again, what oil resources??

That Crimean "election" was blatantly corrupt: glass ballot boxes, for goodness' sake! People were threatened if they didn't show up at the polls, and were told how to vote. The actual "choice" was something like "A. Join Russia" or "B: Leave Ukraine". Some "election"...
So, putting a NATO base in Crimea is a "true Independence"? Do you really think that Russia should accept NATO base in its backyard, (corrected) front yard? When USSR did this kind of thing in Cuba, US almost started WW3.
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