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If the employer only wants to hire union employees, that should be the employers choice, but if the employer wants to hire an employee and doesn't care whether that employee wants to join the union, that should also be the employer's choice.
Are you saying a union shop should be able to stop an employer from hiring a person that chooses not to join the union?
I worked at several companies without a union and made real good money with good benefits.
Were unions helpful in the past and help pave the way for today's employees? Yes. But just as I know longer need a horse, I also don't need a union.
If you want a horse, get one. If you want to join a union, join it. Just don't try to force others into it.
The most important principle of unionism is collective bargaining. You're hiring the union to negotiate a contract for you. I've watched my union in contract talks, and they are 100 times better negotiators than I am. Our general counsel went to Oxford and has a law degree from an Ivy League law school. I could not afford him on my own, but by pooling w/ co-workers I can.
Note that the contract covers not just pay, but everything from work rules, disciplinary process, vacations and other time off, etc. The problem w/ bringing in an employee who is not union is somewhat like someone moving from (say) France to the U.S. and still wishing to live under French law. It does not work.
Nobody is trying to take away your right to join a union.
Knock yourself out. Just don't try to force me to join something that does me no good.
You are not being forced to join. You may decline to join, and go work at a non-union job. If you don't want to join, you don't have to join.
There may be certain public sector jobs, such as teaching, where it is tantamount to being forced. K-12 is dominated by public schools, and if you want to teach K-12 you are likely going to be teaching at a public school, and have to join a union to do it. I oppose that, and support either abolishment or drastic reform of public sector unionism.
I want to expand on the basic problem I see w/ public sector unions. At my (private sector) union, when we negotiate a contract it is literally over a long table with a bunch of company people on one side, and union people on the other. We have opposing interests. The union wants wages as high as possible, and the company wants the opposite. We have to negotiate and meet somewhere in the middle. It's a process that, at least in my experience, works well.
By contrast with the public sector unions, they have the union people on one side of the table, and representatives of the politicos whom the union people helped elect on the other side of the table. It's two wolves debating over how many lambs (the taxpayers) are to be slaughtered.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobNJ1960
It means nothing is legally owed. I am a conservative who agrees if an employee wishes to avoid a union, that should be legal, and of no consequence in limiting where he can work.
Again, that isnt what we are talking about. You know that, therefore you are being purposefully obtuse.
Status:
"everybody getting reported now.."
(set 23 days ago)
Location: Pine Grove,AL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PedroMartinez
Are you saying the union is being forced by law to allow employers to become union members without paying dues?
In short yes.
Here is a quote from the NLRB
Quote:
The question of union dues is subject to federal and state laws and court rulings. The NLRA allows unions and employers to enter into agreements that require all employees in a bargaining unit to pay union dues. However, 27 states have banned such agreements by passing so called “right to work†laws. More information is available on our Employer/Union Obligations page.
27 states have banned union-security agreements by passing so-called "right to work" laws. In these states, it is up to each employee at a workplace to decide whether or not to join the union and pay dues, even though all workers are protected by the collective bargaining agreement negotiated by the union
While these people dont have to join the union, they are afforded the same benefits as if they did without ever paying dues.
The most important principle of unionism is collective bargaining. You're hiring the union to negotiate a contract for you. I've watched my union in contract talks, and they are 100 times better negotiators than I am. Our general counsel went to Oxford and has a law degree from an Ivy League law school. I could not afford him on my own, but by pooling w/ co-workers I can.
Note that the contract covers not just pay, but everything from work rules, disciplinary process, vacations and other time off, etc. The problem w/ bringing in an employee who is not union is somewhat like someone moving from (say) France to the U.S. and still wishing to live under French law. It does not work.
lol you made that up.There are many examples of non union workers having no problems working a job that has fellow union workers.
This thread seems like it's regurgitating the same little lies that liberals and union promoters always do. "Right to work" doesn't stop anyone from forming a union. It doesn't stop anyone from joining your little club if they want to. If they would rather have someone else negotiate their wages and benefits rather than do it themselves, and pay a high membership fee for that coverage they are welcome to. All it does is keep unions from extorting fees from employees that do not choose to join the little club and get nothing from it.
Unions are a lot like Obamacare. If they really were a good deal, you wouldn't have to force people to join and punish them if they don't.
The most important principle of unionism is collective bargaining. You're hiring the union to negotiate a contract for you. I've watched my union in contract talks, and they are 100 times better negotiators than I am. Our general counsel went to Oxford and has a law degree from an Ivy League law school. I could not afford him on my own, but by pooling w/ co-workers I can.
Note that the contract covers not just pay, but everything from work rules, disciplinary process, vacations and other time off, etc. The problem w/ bringing in an employee who is not union is somewhat like someone moving from (say) France to the U.S. and still wishing to live under French law. It does not work.
RTW states don't forbid you and your union from hiring the best legal team in the world if you choose.
Nothing stops you from using them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wutitiz
You are not being forced to join. You may decline to join, and go work at a non-union job. If you don't want to join, you don't have to join.
There may be certain public sector jobs, such as teaching, where it is tantamount to being forced. K-12 is dominated by public schools, and if you want to teach K-12 you are likely going to be teaching at a public school, and have to join a union to do it. I oppose that, and support either abolishment or drastic reform of public sector unionism.
People should be free to work at a business with a union and not be forced to join it if the employer chooses to hire non-union employees.
Public sector unions should be illegal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251
In short yes.
Here is a quote from the NLRB
While these people dont have to join the union, they are afforded the same benefits as if they did without ever paying dues.
If there is some law that forces that, it should be removed.
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