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However, we should also allow hospitals to turn away the sick even the gravely ill who are incapable of payment or have no health insurance. Tax payer money should only be used for the cleanup "afterwards"... cleanup... the dead leftover would be a health hazard for all.
Some will say it is Draconian... sure it is...
So is not making it mandatory that people are responsible for their health care costs. Businesses shouldn't be forced to render services that are unpaid... Health care should be no exception.. especially on Tax payer dime.
You just made a liar of me. Before reading this I had never seen anyone advocate leaving people dying in the streets. I am embarrassed to have read your words.
I know doctors who will prescribe meds for folks who cannot afford to pay for the Dr's visit. I know pharmacists who have and will fill a script for anyone I bring the script in for, knowing I'll pay for it, and seeking the best savings they can because they know I'm doing it out of charity.
There are good folks out there who do what they can. Then there are people like you. I pray you never need help, but know that if you ever do, there are people like me who will reach into our own pocket, or do whatever we can to help folks, even folks like you.
Yes, congratulations, you are free to mooch your healthcare off the backs of other people again.
What a deceptive thing to say, as if to imply the "subsidies" many received under Obamacare was not indigents/freeloaders/etc. not mooching off other people.
What was even worse with Obamacare, was that insurance companies who signed on and either lost money or worse, didn't make a specified amount of profit, would mooch off the taxpayers via this socialized medicine scheme.
Keep in mind that no one works for free, including the medical industry. Thus when the uninsured get treatment (and yes, rest assured everyone was receiving treatment despite liberals pretending people were dying in the streets) under our standard system or Obamacare, the costs will be passed along to others.
However, at least the people with insurance got a few extra perks over those who didn't have insurance. Whether it be a choice of doctors, hospitals, private rooms, etc., we at least got more value for the inflated prices.
But in the warped Utopian view of liberals, healthcare is a right (as if enshrined in our Constitution), and the illegal or gangbanger criminal should be entitled to the same care as a CEO of a company.
Needless to say the limousine liberals are all for spending other peoples money to try to make everyone equal, yet they themselves do not live in housing projects or take the bus. Nor do they allow the people stuck in those places because of economic hardship, to come to stay in their Manhattan or Bel Aire mansions.
Control cost of service.
fair price for drugs
bidding across state lines (Like Care Insurance)
Tort reform A concerted effort to reduce mal practice issues.
(There is always a risk to at treatment)
Tax rebates for employers who provide ins.
All a good start!
I don't have a problem with any of that. As far as your argument goes.
Why did they have no insurance? Employer didn't offer, couldn't afford, didn't qualify for the various other government assisted medical, didn't want it?
When I didn't have it, yeah, my employer didn't offer it and I couldn't afford it.
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So was it an epidemic, where was the big problem? I recall reading where several major hospitals had to shut down due to illegals swamping the ERs, never to be found again for billing? But otherwise I was unaware citizens being uninsured was a problem, perhaps I missed it and you can provide some information.
Can I generalize with no specifics like you did?
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And yet People still go to the ER where others pay for it and now we are paying more for it on top of that.
Here's a story on how messed up the system is now. When my gkids were left with me they had TNcare. One got pretty sick for 3 days so I finally called around to get him to a clinic. I called three clinics and my doctors office and none accepted his TNcare. I explained the situation and said I would pay for the visit but was told they could not make an appointment or treat him because me paying the bill out of pocket was considered fraud. I had to go to the ER so a 65 dollar office visit cost the taxpayers 600$.
Read through the thread. My argument is that the system is messed up.
So you just said that if you don't pay, either the government will pay (absorbed in the rates) or the people who have insurance (via increased premiums).
No, I said what I said. If you don't pay AND you have no assets, job, or die THEN we're in a situation where the hospital has to raise costs on everyone else to recover.
That is NOTHING like stealing additional taxes from hard working taxpayers in order to pay for..........
If it's "stealing" it's stealing whether its for something you want or something someone else wants. You are for this theft as long as it's something you want.
6 months of chemo and associated medical costs was $500,000 if I was to pay for it myself. In my first year out of treatment, my scans and follow up appointments were at least another $50,000. I was 23, and even with insurance and a decent entry level job, every last penny went to medical care. Dining out, vacations, cable tv? Hah. It's 6 years later and I still live with roommates despite making nearly double the salary I made when I was diagnosed, and I do/have none of those things. I make a decent salary and really don't know that I will ever be able to afford to buy a house or have kids due to the financial hit I took throughout my 20s due to cancer, despite living frugally and saving where ever I could before my illness.
I have not yet made $500,000 in my life. Even if what my hospital billed my insurance was cut by half, how on earth does someone pay for that? And I was lucky - I was cured and able to get back to my life and am about to finish up a master's degree paid for by my employer in order to demand a higher income. I wasn't dramatically cognitively impaired long-term by my treatment. I don't need years of expensive maintenance chemo, replacement of prosthetics, or medication to replace various hormones that my body no longer makes.
I was denied health insurance due to minor and unrelated pre-existing conditions 4 months before my diagnosis, and was lucky to have the ability to move cross-country for an entry level job in the middle of the recession that had insurance.
It didn't have to be cancer. It could have been MS, schizophrenia, Chrone's disease, a bad reaction to an antibiotic resulting in nerve damage, kidney failure, or diabetes. Quite a few of my college friends experienced those expensive ailments within a few years of graduation. How do those people just pay it off? How do people with chronic illnesses ever get ahead of their bills?
You have *no* idea what things cost if you think that's a possibility for anyone but the wealthiest Americans. And if you think a hospital is just going to write it off or that charity can handle the needs, you're the one that needs a doctor.
I am really sorry for what you went through, and I am glad to hear that you survived and are able to move forward in your life. My thoughts about health insurance are not made in a vacuum and my comments are not meant to be glib. I wish there was a solution that would allow those who want health insurance coverage to have access to affordable coverage, but I also feel that requiring healthy people to pay the same amount as chronically ill people is wrong, and I feel that turning healthcare over to the Government is not the solution either. I do not claim to have the solution, I just know that mandating citizens to purchase a product is NOT the right answer. I know people who live in countries where the government oversees health care and everyone of them has said that the care is fair at best and the wealthier citizens are able to pay for much better care which results in a system where the wealthy get great health care, but they do pay for the poorest to get crappy health care for free. I don't see that as a great solution, either. I also have friends that came from places like Cuba where they send their relatives basic things like aspirin and rubbing alcohol in Cuba. If their relatives have to go to the hospital, they have to bring their own sheets!!! How are we going to maintain an entire nationwide system when we cannot even provide adequate for Veterans or Native Americans?
First, what is up with religion having anything to do with how a country is run? I will state it clearly; I'm mostly agnostic but also follow Buddhist beliefs and have done for years. I respect Christians, learned that lately there is more hatred from this particular group but also very confused as to how 'religious' beliefs automatically just cut off a majority of other religions world wide and historically. Religion doesn't mean Christianity. Religion is a set of BELIEFS and it should be the most personal and reverent thing we keep in ourselves. You just can't base the core of a person and how they carry out their ethics and morals based on pre-defined group beliefs. Masks are worn by everyone.
I just got a huge tax cut with this new order. My husband and I are paper carriers and work literally night and day with 2 night routes and 2 day routes. We're considered self-employed, make just enough to have to pay in quite a bit each year for taxes and still pay a penalty as we are quoted over $600 a month for our family. On top of that, my husband has a green card and there are many limits given to him based on our income, his time here since we moved back to this country and waiting time for citizenship. It's been cheaper for us to use the Urgent Care clinic for our family (kids are 16 and 18 now) and pay to see the Dr. Instead of $7000 yr, we pay about $1000 with meds and everything. My daughter has swimmers ear and asthma so we do have to take her in and get prescriptions but we can also supplement them by getting meds sent in from Canada with a previous RX and the same people at the clinic see us. We also lived in a country (Italy) where my kids and I got the best health care I've ever had while we lived there based on my husband having a European Codicile (tax code).
However, I also am aware that my money I paid in tax penalties helps people exactly like us in the future; people whom we can be in the future. We are moving, I plan on getting a nursing degree and my husband, formerly a computer programmer in Rome, is planning to get up to date through certification and we plan on, by next year, being one of the lower to middle class that could benefit from a program like ObamaCare when previously we were not helped by it.
I also believe people shouldn't have to suffer. We do work hard, we don't sleep and have no time for the past 3 years doing this job except what we give up our sleep for. But I try to help out with the extra we do take in because it's important and more important to me then money. My family has been brought up this way and my kids still go with us to Orlando to help out with the kitchens, with the homeless and other groups. Not as much as we wish but when we can, we do. My kids are fantastic for it. I don't think I want to raise them in a world where it comes down to 'survival of the fittest' or that life becomes how much I can keep for me and only about me.
For the last time, not everyone whom thinks like I do is a 'lefty'. Labels are just one of the biggest problems here. If Trump could have found some kind of solution better then this before just cutting everything off, I would be a very large supporter. If he would just help this country calm down, I would be a supporter. I long for the time when politics didn't divide every area and every minute of life. It's just crazy. States divided by either extreme hate or extreme views for one man. This is just insane.
If it's "stealing" it's stealing whether its for something you want or something someone else wants. You are for this theft as long as it's something you want.
It's always this way.
How dare you compare roads and bridges that everyone can use, actual infrastructure, to products and services that the rest of us, actual hard working taxpayers have to pay for out of our own pockets, while demanding to steal from us via taxes in order to pay for the same products and services for others who aren't paying for them.
No one has ANY right to demand another pay for their (or someone else) products or services when the people having money stolen must also pay for those products and services themselves. That is THEFT.
If you want to contribute to or form a charity of choice, use you OWN money and your OWN resources. To demand someone else pay for your benevolence is THEFT.
James Madison (known as the Father of the Constitution because he wrote most of it) said, "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."
How dare you compare roads and bridges that everyone can use,
The discussion was taxes are theft. Are you saying they aren't?
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