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Old 02-17-2017, 05:44 PM
 
21,988 posts, read 15,601,484 times
Reputation: 12943

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If memory serves, it started with Newt Gingrich during Clinton's term. He was extremely combative, shut down the government, etc. and it's escalated with every presidential term ever since.

The Millennial’s Guide to Newt Gingrich - POLITICO Magazine

Democrats watched the way Obama was treated and while they have no power, they will exploit every opportunity to enjoy GOP misery. Sooner or later, the tables will turn and with each decade, it gets worse. What has changed recently is the intense dislike of party supporters. I could see this getting really bad over time, like "a red state resident having difficulty finding a job in a blue state" type of thing, and of course, vice versa. I say this as Democrat in a blue state and would not be surprised if the reverse were true in red states. It goes to the increasing escalation over the years as our political rhetoric has intensified.

 
Old 02-17-2017, 05:53 PM
 
21,988 posts, read 15,601,484 times
Reputation: 12943
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The rise of social media...everybody is suddenly a pundit and has a voice.

Started before that, of course with the electiion of Obama, the Left pulled harder left and embraced globalism and identity politics...Then the Right responds by electing Trump, basically giving the Left and establishment RINOS a big FU.

Call people racist and tell them to check their privilege while their jobs get outsourced, sent overseas or legislated and regulated out of existence.....

What did they expect, really?
I'm not that old and I know it started long before that. Really it goes to Bill Clinton and Newt Gingrich. Newt made a name for himself and the GOP spent almost the entire eight years Clinton was in office investigating him. They even investigated his Christmas Card list (seriously, they did). Never mind that two or three Republicans that were up in arms about affairs were found to be guilty themselves including - Newt Gingrich. That followed with the 2000 election decided by the Supreme Court. That the GOP stopped a vote recount is still shocking and why I think no one should ever do that on either side. If there is a question, recount the votes, it absolutely does no harm.

With Bush in office due to the Supreme Court ruling, we ended in the Iraq war, Katrina, etc. and while Democrats enjoyed reminding the country of the mess, Republicans saved up their anger and used it on Obama. Now it has flipped again, Democrats are doing the same.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 06:12 PM
 
6,581 posts, read 4,953,913 times
Reputation: 3673
Quote:
Originally Posted by FatBob96 View Post
The rise of social media...everybody is suddenly a pundit and has a voice.

Started before that, of course with the electiion of Obama, the Left pulled harder left and embraced globalism and identity politics...Then the Right responds by electing Trump, basically giving the Left and establishment RINOS a big FU.

Call people racist and tell them to check their privilege while their jobs get outsourced, sent overseas or legislated and regulated out of existence.....

What did they expect, really?
14

No white identity politics exists, please.

Modern times embraced globalization, the technology to make it viable made it possible. If you really wanted to ease the burden of regulations you would leverage technology to create a dynamic regulatory environment where companies can make a case when regulations have a negative impact, or we can pretend we are in kindergarten and just say for every new regulation 2 come off the book.

OP,

I dont know where we go from here but when we can both look at live video footage and cant even agree on the size of the crowd in front of us, I dont know where we go from there. I think maybe going back to a very limited federal goverment and shift most power to the states at least that way you can move, I dont like it but I think we are so far apart. As far as political dialogue I find closed facebook groups to be pretty good, you can disagree with people but there is no name calling or absurdity for the most part.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 06:15 PM
 
309 posts, read 513,257 times
Reputation: 1100
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ellwood View Post
Over my lifetime I have probably voted in 13 Presidential elections and this is the very first time I have ever seen such hate and discontent. The candidate I chose in several of those elections was not the winner, yet this is the first time that there has been so many protests. I believe many of the protests were paid by wealthy Democrats, such as Soros, because the wealthy will be the biggest losers with a GOP President. I have read where the violent protestors were brought in by these people. The media bias is very disturbing. The media has the power to influence elections especially with their fake news or half-truths. I didn't like Obama, felt he did absolutely nothing for America except increase racism and hatred. BUT I didn't protest or march, but then again no body offered to pay me.

OP, read the above post again. This is it.

Those protests are done by professional shills, including many comments here on forums that despite simple common sense, those paid shills keep spouting obtuse nonsense and blindly support any policies that further damage the nation.

The only reason that this president is facing unprecendented pressure is that he is actually an outsider to both parties. Republucan didn't want him at all initially. If it's any other Republican candidate instead of Trump, there would not be this level of chaos.

The honest hard working Ametican citizens support Trump because in the past many decades, both parties have systematically cheated the American middle class, robbing us to enrich the super wealthy, and get the poor and illegal aliens addicted on dozens of warefare handouts programs.

These handout programs are so numerous and overlapping, many addicted handout recipients live much better lives (free insurance, free housing, free phones, free food, free college, etc) than the hard working honest citizens.

As a result, the monetary values of their handouts can far exceed the median income of American workers.

We the middle class are sick and tired of being the modern day slaves, paying through the nose for everybody, and still need to fend for ourselves at every turn: rising housing, college, medical and food costs due to the various financial scams (aka government programs, loan practices), all at the same time with fewer and fewer job opportunities, and stagnant wages - even in high tech industries, with the cost of living taken into consideration.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 08:11 PM
 
Location: near bears but at least no snakes
26,634 posts, read 28,419,191 times
Reputation: 50424
The country stayed together after WWII, after the assassination of JFK, after 911.

A long time ago:
Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961 (you can google this) we were warned. The rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

The problem is not with Republicans or Democrats as most from each party are somewhere in the middle. Both parties suffer from job loss, stagnant wages, lack of decent health care, sick and tired of illegals taking over, etc.

But there are extremists on each side who are fanning the flames. They pay to get their special interests promoted in Congress. They make millions on the military and on their businesses while the rest of us, in both parties, are stuck. We have been duped with promises from each side.

Choose your side--it does not matter. It will do no good. Winning makes us feel better but we are not really winning--the millionaires in each party win, but not us. Too bad we in the middle can't unite and rise up against the ruling parties. But this is how a nation fails and finally collapses. The poor can try to rise up but the rich have the power and will win. Maybe this time, due to social media, things will be different and Repubs and Dems who are in the middle will see that WE need to unite. Not with the left or the right but with each other. In The Middle. But this is what's happening and why the hatred--it's the extremists pitting us against each other so that they can divide us up. Divide and conquer=they win every time.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 08:24 PM
 
2,956 posts, read 2,321,679 times
Reputation: 6475
IMO, the reason there is a lot of hatred is because the vast majority of people do a few things:

1. Fall under the Dunning Kruger effect

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunnin...3Kruger_effect


2. Plays into 1 but most people are VERY low information decision makers on politics

3. All these things lead into the final point where people tend to wear their political affiliation as a badge of honor or even a Religious type of fervor.


So take all those together and things can get testy. Much like when you start talking about religion with a zealot.

Quite frankly both sides annoy the hell out of me. I'm more or less an Independent that is a registered republican that has been leaning more liberal on certain social issues. The way I see it, if we are going to spend money I needs to be on something other than tax cuts and military since we've been trying that for 30 years now and it hasn't done much.

However on several major issues I align more right, guns and abortion (although I feel exceptions should always be made).

On the left, single payer, alternative energy (especially nuclear which is an odd ball item) and I'm fine with helping those less fortunate.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 08:50 PM
 
9,470 posts, read 9,311,677 times
Reputation: 8175
Quote:
Originally Posted by in_newengland View Post
The country stayed together after WWII, after the assassination of JFK, after 911.

A long time ago:
Military-Industrial Complex Speech, Dwight D. Eisenhower, 1961 (you can google this) we were warned. The rich get richer while the poor get poorer.

The problem is not with Republicans or Democrats as most from each party are somewhere in the middle. Both parties suffer from job loss, stagnant wages, lack of decent health care, sick and tired of illegals taking over, etc.

But there are extremists on each side who are fanning the flames. They pay to get their special interests promoted in Congress. They make millions on the military and on their businesses while the rest of us, in both parties, are stuck. We have been duped with promises from each side.

Choose your side--it does not matter. It will do no good. Winning makes us feel better but we are not really winning--the millionaires in each party win, but not us. Too bad we in the middle can't unite and rise up against the ruling parties. But this is how a nation fails and finally collapses. The poor can try to rise up but the rich have the power and will win. Maybe this time, due to social media, things will be different and Repubs and Dems who are in the middle will see that WE need to unite. Not with the left or the right but with each other. In The Middle. But this is what's happening and why the hatred--it's the extremists pitting us against each other so that they can divide us up. Divide and conquer=they win every time.
I can't rep you again, but WONDERFUL post!
 
Old 02-17-2017, 09:26 PM
 
Location: Newport Beach, California
38,963 posts, read 27,322,828 times
Reputation: 15906
I think it has to do with identification. We have a sort of tribal need to identify with a group and (often) leaders.

It is really silly when you think about it. I have no ideas why some people take politics so PERSONALLY.
 
Old 02-17-2017, 09:39 PM
 
8,275 posts, read 7,886,373 times
Reputation: 12122
The answer is quite simple:. We aren't truly one united country - really never have been when it comes down to it. We are probably more like 4 or 5 different countries that have been awkwardly glued together.

This matters because the things liberal California wants to do are morally reprehensible to places like Arkansas, and vice versa. It goes FAR beyond simple policy differences - we've come to the point that partisan politics now involves offending the moral values of half the country. The two parties take turns forcing their values on people that find those values repugnant.

That's why there is now hate instead of policy disagreement.
 
Old 02-18-2017, 08:21 AM
 
185 posts, read 167,638 times
Reputation: 311
The partisanship is worse. I attribute it to a combination of factors.

One large factor is simply the shortcomings of humanity. Greed often wins over doing what's right for the masses. We've seen this throughout global history. Humans also tend to fall for false promises and short cuts. They see a guy who claims to be wildly successful and claims he's going to make everyone else a winner. People who feel unsatisfied by their life fall for this. Trump conveniently gave them something other than themselves to blame for their failure and they feel for it.

I also blame it on the creep of religion into our government. The religious right got a strong foothold in Washington when Billy Graham helped Nixon get elected. I have no problem with people practicing their religious beliefs, but they're now forcing their beliefs on our citizenry through legislation. They do this because sheep are easier to control than critical thinkers. Politicians team up with religious groups to get and hold on to power.

The final factor is that our government structure has not evolved with time. Something needs to be done about PACS, dark money and lobbyists. These are the backstage structures through which people who have selfish goals direct our national policies and laws. Supreme Court justices who are strict constitutionalists are wrong. The constitution should be considered a living document. A species that doesn't evolve to changes in environment dies off...the constitution should not be a dinosaur.

You can see how these factors brought us President Trump. The greed of Wall Street, the religious right supporting a man they know to be thoroughly un-christian in order to regain their leverage in the Oval Office, dark money PACS being used to attack the opponents, and lobbyists being appointed to cabinet positions. You even have the Republican party, corrupt to the core now, looking the other way at the influence of a foreign government in our election.

To be honest with you, I don't have a bright outlook for our country. The great experiment might be just that--an experiment. Hopefully other democracies will learn from our mistakes and find a way to make it work.

My advice to you is to make a difference wherever you can. Even at home is a good choice. Be honest and promote honesty. Show people that you can be honest and compassionate and still be successful and happy.
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