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Old 03-04-2008, 10:54 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,452,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzschean Gangsta View Post
Black Americans and Libertarianism doesn't mix. Why? Well, it's ideology is completely at odds with African-American history. COMPLETELY!!!
How do you figure?

Most Black Americans live in the south, where libertarianism is a very important political concept. White and black southerners have always exchanged cultures, from Okra and black-eyed peas, to Christianity and gospel music and rock n' roll, to the way we all talk. It isn't such a stretch to think that American blacks have adopted some Scots-Irish ways, especially now that they have all the rights of any other American.

In fact, I heard an interview on NPR the other day about black libertarianism. The interviewee said the same thing Frank Carbonni did.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:30 AM
 
Location: part of the Matrix--for now!
1,031 posts, read 1,310,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anonymous View Post
How do you figure?

Most Black Americans live in the south, where libertarianism is a very important political concept. White and black southerners have always exchanged cultures, from Okra and black-eyed peas, to Christianity and gospel music and rock n' roll, to the way we all talk. It isn't such a stretch to think that American blacks have adopted some Scots-Irish ways, especially now that they have all the rights of any other American.

In fact, I heard an interview on NPR the other day about black libertarianism. The interviewee said the same thing Frank Carbonni did.
When I say Libertarianism I'm referring to this http://www.science.uva.nl/~seop/entries/libertarianism/

Libertarianism is essentially a right-wing ideology that parades itself as being left-wing. To many people, the notions of liberty and non intrusive government sounds very good. But the real failing of Libertarianism lies in its ethics, it's conception of a person, it's failure to properly understand the relationship between people and government, and the notion of unrestrictive markets.

I'm wondering what you are referring to.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:38 AM
 
1,573 posts, read 4,052,374 times
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African-Americans can certainly be libertarian but I don't think it necessarily reflects any particular African heritage. Many African cultures would be somewhat troubled by the concept of individualism that many Americans believe in. Humanity tends to be defined by actions to other people and the group as a whole, and not by individual efforts towards achieving status. In the more broad sense this means that family, social, and ethnic groups are also held responsible for the actions of individuals, and these groups can aquire shame through the actions of individuals within the group.

In the real world most people of any race aren't serious libertarians. The Internet seems to attract alot of libertarians and they are disproportionately represented, but in reality most people would find pure libertarianism difficult to reconcile with their values.
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Old 03-04-2008, 11:51 AM
 
2,356 posts, read 3,452,654 times
Reputation: 864
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzschean Gangsta View Post
When I say Libertarianism I'm referring to this http://www.science.uva.nl/~seop/entries/libertarianism/

Libertarianism is essentially a right-wing ideology that parades itself as being left-wing. To many people, the notions of liberty and non intrusive government sounds very good. But the real failing of Libertarianism lies in its ethics, it's conception of a person, it's failure to properly understand the relationship between people and government, and the notion of unrestrictive markets.

I'm wondering what you are referring to.
I'm referring to mainstream American libertarianism. Federalist, fiscally conservative, socially moderate-to-liberal. An independent by today's standards, not represented well by today's Democrats or Republicans. I'm not referring to extreme libertarian theory, any more than a mainstream Democrat is represented by one of the more extreme Communist theories.

When I refer to the "Scots Irish," I'm referring to their clannish social structure, and the fundamental distrust they had of the government, which strongly influenced the way our federal government was set up from the beginning.

This all relates to blacks in that I think there's the stereotype that all blacks are fiscally liberal and support redistribution of wealth, and large government programs. I think this may hold true in large, urban areas, but I know plenty of black folks who have many political views that mirror my own, despite the fact that they usually vote Democrat and I usually vote Republican.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:01 PM
 
Location: in my imagination
13,562 posts, read 21,323,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nietzschean Gangsta View Post
When I say Libertarianism I'm referring to this http://www.science.uva.nl/~seop/entries/libertarianism/

Libertarianism is essentially a right-wing ideology that parades itself as being left-wing. To many people, the notions of liberty and non intrusive government sounds very good. But the real failing of Libertarianism lies in its ethics, it's conception of a person, it's failure to properly understand the relationship between people and government, and the notion of unrestrictive markets.

I'm wondering what you are referring to.
What does idealogy have to do with ethnic background?Why can't a black person be right wing?(some are).What does thought have to do with someones skin color?

Relationship of people and government?That's suppose to be a good thing?
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:02 PM
 
21 posts, read 42,400 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backfist View Post
Truthhurts~

A little unsolicited advice from a Black man of your parents' generation. Do with it what you will:

You have absolutely no obligation to disprove stereotypes about you (or me). In fact, it's not your role or responsibility to do so. Let me explain.

You've laid out all the evidence that you are a well-rounded, multi-faceted young man with a diversity of knowledge, interests, friendships, etc. You became that person on your own upbringing; your own volition; your own knowledge; your own understanding of people, places and things. Yet you undertake the obligation to emplor others to look past their prejudices to see that you're just as ordinary of a person. That's not a balanced way of gaining the respect that you deserve.

You should never have to "prove" that you're not a stereotype, any more than a White person would "prove" that they aren't a stereotype. You owe nothing to anyone. Just be yourself and let others be who and what they are.
I disagree, I don't think that truthhurts is trying to get acceptance from anyone, but trying to edcate the people that there are many blacks that are not the "poor uneducated" stereo-typed.

Actually, I feel for the AA's that are educated, the media and some of the leaders (al sharpton/jesse) that mainly represent the "poor uneducated" blacks shed a bad example for the rest of the responsible blacks. The stero-types remains I think partly due to these people. Although, their will always be some racism...I think that rest of the country that are not racist are "sick" and "tired" of some of the blacks continually bringing up the race card for their own agenda. At times they may be warrented, there are many cases when it is not.

We want "these" poort uneducated blacks to take responsiblity for their own lives and be held to the same standard as everyone else. It's insulting to the rest of us that are not racist to be called racist. There remains a division, to some extent, because there are so many exceptions made to the "poor blacks" because they are black (race card). The media should stop focusing on this so much, but I doubt that is going to happen.

It would help the stero-type, if the educated (responsible) blacks would stand up to the Al Sharptons of the world, and it would be shown on the media to the rest of us, and disagree with them. I just feel or have never seen any responible black person disagree with the Al Sharptons of the world or maybe the media just doesn't show them.

Mainly, what I hear and countless many others agree, is that, I am black, I can't stand on my own, I have been a slave and cant hack that standards that everyone else is held up to, so I you are keeping me down because I am black, so I will sue for discrimination, make a lot fo noise and then I will get what I want. This entitlement issue "because" I am black is sooooooooo old espically, when we are tying to live our lives as best as can like everyone else. Affirmative action is good and still necessary. I will say it again, the educated responisble blacks really need to stand up to the Al Sharptons of the world. If anyone else does then of course we are portrayed as racist. I think that this can be accomplished within the AA culture.

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Old 03-04-2008, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Dallas, NC
1,703 posts, read 3,862,064 times
Reputation: 809
As a white, Southern woman, let me just say something. It DOES NOT matter what your skin color is but rather where you are from that is more indicative of how you are perceived. What I mean by this is that Southerns in general are depicted as slow, stupid people who eat weird food and talk funny. I do talk funny to some people but they usually are implants from somewhere else. I am college educated and talk faster than most people. Anyway, it's the same with black people. Blacks in the inner city more often fit the "gangster" profile while blacks in the South don't so much. Either way there are always exceptions to every thing and some how we have got to get over the stereotyping.

I've asked the question (not exactly like this but close) before why so many young black girls get pregnant and why black boys seem to feel it necessary to knock girls up without a clue about taking care of them or a child. It doesn't make me racist. It's what I see where I live. Stereotyping, I don't think so. It does happen over and over. I get pegged as a racist b/c I ask questions. Why can't people have a conversation without it turning ugly?
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:31 PM
 
Location: Toledo
3,860 posts, read 8,432,484 times
Reputation: 3732
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGGER04 View Post
I disagree, I don't think that truthhurts is trying to get acceptance from anyone, but trying to edcate the people that there are many blacks that are not the "poor uneducated" stereo-typed.

Actually, I feel for the AA's that are educated, the media and some of the leaders (al sharpton/jesse) that mainly represent the "poor uneducated" blacks shed a bad example for the rest of the responsible blacks. The stero-types remains I think partly due to these people. Although, their will always be some racism...I think that rest of the country that are not racist are "sick" and "tired" of some of the blacks continually bringing up the race card for their own agenda. At times they may be warrented, there are many cases when it is not.

We want "these" poort uneducated blacks to take responsiblity for their own lives and be held to the same standard as everyone else. It's insulting to the rest of us that are not racist to be called racist. There remains a division, to some extent, because there are so many exceptions made to the "poor blacks" because they are black (race card). The media should stop focusing on this so much, but I doubt that is going to happen.

It would help the stero-type, if the educated (responsible) blacks would stand up to the Al Sharptons of the world, and it would be shown on the media to the rest of us, and disagree with them. I just feel or have never seen any responible black person disagree with the Al Sharptons of the world or maybe the media just doesn't show them.

Mainly, what I hear and countless many others agree, is that, I am black, I can't stand on my own, I have been a slave and cant hack that standards that everyone else is held up to, so I you are keeping me down because I am black, so I will sue for discrimination, make a lot fo noise and then I will get what I want. This entitlement issue "because" I am black is sooooooooo old espically, when we are tying to live our lives as best as can like everyone else. Affirmative action is good and still necessary. I will say it again, the educated responisble blacks really need to stand up to the Al Sharptons of the world. If anyone else does then of course we are portrayed as racist. I think that this can be accomplished within the AA culture.
Many black folks already speak out against Al Sharpton et al. Maybe they just don't feel the need to do it in a showy matter to appease non-blacks. Most people who interact with average black folks (yes decent blacks outnumber the troublemakers) in a meaningful way would know this. Most people are gonna believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence. I'm just gonna do what I do, and to hell with everyone else.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
2,290 posts, read 5,530,408 times
Reputation: 800
Quote:
Originally Posted by TIGGER04 View Post
I disagree, I don't think that truthhurts is trying to get acceptance from anyone, but trying to edcate the people that there are many blacks that are not the "poor uneducated" stereo-typed.

Actually, I feel for the AA's that are educated, the media and some of the leaders (al sharpton/jesse) that mainly represent the "poor uneducated" blacks shed a bad example for the rest of the responsible blacks. The stero-types remains I think partly due to these people. Although, their will always be some racism...I think that rest of the country that are not racist are "sick" and "tired" of some of the blacks continually bringing up the race card for their own agenda. At times they may be warrented, there are many cases when it is not.

We want "these" poort uneducated blacks to take responsiblity for their own lives and be held to the same standard as everyone else. It's insulting to the rest of us that are not racist to be called racist. There remains a division, to some extent, because there are so many exceptions made to the "poor blacks" because they are black (race card). The media should stop focusing on this so much, but I doubt that is going to happen.

It would help the stero-type, if the educated (responsible) blacks would stand up to the Al Sharptons of the world, and it would be shown on the media to the rest of us, and disagree with them. I just feel or have never seen any responible black person disagree with the Al Sharptons of the world or maybe the media just doesn't show them.

Mainly, what I hear and countless many others agree, is that, I am black, I can't stand on my own, I have been a slave and cant hack that standards that everyone else is held up to, so I you are keeping me down because I am black, so I will sue for discrimination, make a lot fo noise and then I will get what I want. This entitlement issue "because" I am black is sooooooooo old espically, when we are tying to live our lives as best as can like everyone else. Affirmative action is good and still necessary. I will say it again, the educated responisble blacks really need to stand up to the Al Sharptons of the world. If anyone else does then of course we are portrayed as racist. I think that this can be accomplished within the AA culture.
Of course you disagree. Based on your post, your knowledge and understanding of Black people and Black culture is either media-based or hearsay.

So it's no surprise that my suggestions to the OP do not serve your opinion well, or fit with your sensibilities.
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Old 03-04-2008, 12:53 PM
 
21 posts, read 42,400 times
Reputation: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by yayoi View Post
Many black folks already speak out against Al Sharpton et al. Maybe they just don't feel the need to do it in a showy matter to appease non-blacks. Most people who interact with average black folks (yes decent blacks outnumber the troublemakers) in a meaningful way would know this. Most people are gonna believe what they want to believe regardless of the evidence. I'm just gonna do what I do, and to hell with everyone else.
I am giving you some insight of what the general public is sick of and why. FYI, within other races (not all) they will talk abouth "this" within their own race outside of the AA's ear about the whole race card issue (I hope you understand my meaning w/o me getting too descriptive). And they are simply sick of it. What they really want IS equality! Like you do. Now I am speaking in perspective of the stereo-type that the thread is about and where the ster-type is coming from.

The general public (not all), do know that there are blacks are have taken responiblity of their own lives and yes, they are respected. The problem is that when non-blacks speak about these Al Sharptons of the world, then we get attacked by everyone that is black educated and the none alike! When we are not racists. What is funny is that the responsible blacks and "we" agree!!!! All I am saying is that I think it would help with the whole stereotype issue if the responsible blacks would stand against the irresponsible black leaders that are using the race card when it is unwarrented.
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