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Old 02-22-2017, 12:59 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 9,974,788 times
Reputation: 5225

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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
You are entirely dodging my point.


Everyone who disagrees with you isnt paid to do so. Some people simply have other views.
I get that but my point is that those that agree with you were certainly put front in center. Whether that was a ploy to lessen Bernie's appeal and more to dampen the image of the Clintons being corporate shills, IDK.

Million dollar question: The Black Panthers were targeted by the FBI for destruction because they were said to be the most dangerous group in America. Why? They educated the black community about the ills of drugs, the coercive nature of the capitalist system, and taught self determination. Why were they more dangerous than other movements in the civil rights? Probably because they were also Marxist.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,460 posts, read 16,443,329 times
Reputation: 5972
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
I am not talking about you. I am talking about the party shift. The huge shift in focus and embracing the ruling oligarchy as a result of the push to the right by third way Democrats. Thats when identity politics became essential as the donors who control the party and the media and thus controls the narrative only allow liberalism on issues that dont threaten their privileges and status.
with all do respect, I have worked the Party all the way up to the state level, and have worked on a couple of congressional campaigns in 3 states as well. The party ran away from 3rd way Clintonism about 13 years ago.

At best, you are talking about individual candidates and even then, it is probably their personal beliefs and not them bowing to some donor.

what is more plausible is that the donors back candidates who already agree with them.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:03 AM
 
Location: Pine Grove,AL
29,460 posts, read 16,443,329 times
Reputation: 5972
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
I get that but my point is that those that agree with you were certainly put front in center. Whether that was a ploy to lessen Bernie's appeal and more to dampen the image of the Clintons being corporate shills, IDK.

Million dollar question: The Black Panthers were targeted by the FBI for destruction because they were said to be the most dangerous group in America. Why? They educated the black community about the ills of drugs, the coercive nature of the capitalist system, and taught self determination. Why were they more dangerous than other movements in the civil rights? Probably because they were also Marxist.
Bernie's biggest burdon was simply not being a Democrat and not having helped democrats in the past. He was a reliable vote and nothing more to many.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:07 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 9,974,788 times
Reputation: 5225
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
with all do respect, I have worked the Party all the way up to the state level, and have worked on a couple of congressional campaigns in 3 states as well. The party ran away from 3rd way Clintonism about 13 years ago.

At best, you are talking about individual candidates and even then, it is probably their personal beliefs and not them bowing to some donor.

what is more plausible is that the donors back candidates who already agree with them.
And those donors would find appeal in someone like Bernie? No, they would be more fond of Clinton. Clinton surprisingly redefined what it was to be a progressive and it was mostly redefining it on social issues with some economic issues remaining intact. But now when I talk to a Democrat Party "progressive" they mostly talk about social issues and when they talk about economic issues they sound pretty moderate or think that progressivism doesn't have to mean economically left. I laugh and think oh boy they're really moved the goalposts here. Progressives always used to mean economically left with social issues being equally as important but take a backseat to economics. It was code for social democrat or democratic socialist when anything social was still tied to socialism and seen as evil.

You are definitely establishment, and that's ok but you have proven on here that you guys have really mucked up the political discourse just as bad as right wingers have. Even more so by conflating all these different issues and amputating left wing economics from the discussion. You guys are just neo-liberals.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:12 AM
 
14,221 posts, read 6,934,521 times
Reputation: 6059
Quote:
Originally Posted by dsjj251 View Post
with all do respect, I have worked the Party all the way up to the state level, and have worked on a couple of congressional campaigns in 3 states as well. The party ran away from 3rd way Clintonism about 13 years ago.

At best, you are talking about individual candidates and even then, it is probably their personal beliefs and not them bowing to some donor.

what is more plausible is that the donors back candidates who already agree with them.
No, the party didnt do that. The party is literally swimming in money from the ruling billionaire class and enormously powerful special interests that own the economic system. That hurts the poor and disadvantaged. Badly. The march towards oligarchy is going full steam ahead. The Democrats and Republicans in Congress spend more time dialing for dollars from the donor class (0.01% of the population) than serving the people. To deny the enormous influence money has on public policy is just absurd.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:18 AM
 
10,097 posts, read 9,974,788 times
Reputation: 5225
Well I am out. I'll refer back to the interview with Cornel and Richard Wolff. Great interview, says it all. I highly doubt any liberal worth their salt could have such a lucid conversation with Professor Wolff, which tells me that Cornel West ain't no liberal SJW. I couldn't see Shaun King or MTV's Francesca Ramsey engaging in that discussion. Not to demean the latter at all, but our level of discourse has gone off the rails and into a new low. I thought Bernie revived some of the former, but Clinton and her crew ushered in a new era of low brow SJWism. Sad.

RIP, real left.
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Old 02-22-2017, 01:42 AM
 
Location: the very edge of the continent
88,800 posts, read 44,594,609 times
Reputation: 13625
Quote:
Originally Posted by radiolibre99 View Post
I get that but my point is that those that agree with you were certainly put front in center. Whether that was a ploy to lessen Bernie's appeal and more to dampen the image of the Clintons being corporate shills, IDK.

Million dollar question: The Black Panthers were targeted by the FBI for destruction because they were said to be the most dangerous group in America. Why? They educated the black community about the ills of drugs, the coercive nature of the capitalist system, and taught self determination. Why were they more dangerous than other movements in the civil rights? Probably because they were also Marxist.
No, it's because they openly wanted to overthrow the US Government. Listen to Elaine Brown, a member of the Black Panther Party's Central Committee and their Minister of Information, discussing in her own words how the BPP's goal at the time was the destruction of the US Government, the end of capitalism in the US, and the "institution of a socialist scheme." The relevant part starts at about 7:00 in this NatGeo documentary clip, if you wish to FF...



http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=lLM_QyX6sto
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