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I'd be much more concerned about this purported issue if the authorities were abducting black Americans off the streets in broad daylight and throwing them into prison.
But that's not what is happening. Not at all. These guys who are in prison have usually been repeat customers of the criminal justice system for years before they finally end up in the joint.
The Chris Rock video entitled "How Not to Get Your Butt Kicked by the Po-lice" has some useful pointers for avoiding confrontations with law enforcement. Probably should be required viewing by all members of at-risk populations. 😎
I am familiar with threads posted about blacks here at C-D. I cringed when I read the OP's post. Unlike the Clintons who would advocate for anything that put money in their pockets, Trump will address the job and education crisis and the illegal alien infestation that is making it even more impossible for blacks, especially in urban areas, to survive.
I do not think this is even relevant. Marijuana seems to be much more favored by whites than blacks.
Not necessarily any white people, but those wealthy enough to buy their way out. Much of this still goes to economic class also, well, unless one is an illegal alien where they provided sanctuary, etc. when committing crimes that many would go to prison for.
We aren't talking about going to jail, but being sent to for-profit prisons for non-violent crimes, that is where the increase is. Community service would save us a lot of money for non-violent criminals. The foster care expense alone is huge.
The current situation with illegal aliens makes your comment incorrect. Over 1 million prisoners are there for non-violent crimes, separated from their families, not paying taxes on wages but costing us a bundle to keep them behind bars. Making a bundle for the private prison industry which is a huge lobby!
The first issue is helping all Americans by getting the economy straightened out so that there are jobs. I am sure you know that black Americans have a higher unemployment rate and have, like many others, been replaced by cheap illegal labor.
I still hold that much of the issue is not racial, but economic. Many black Americans are doing well.
I also want to apologize for the ignorance about race expressed by some of the posters here. Ignorance is often the worst enemy in play. The spineless will speak out here where they are anonymous, but to your face, thankfully, most will keep their traps shut unless they are among their own.
Surely you have noticed the protectiveness toward illegal aliens, even the ones committing serious violent crimes against US citizens, while condemning blacks for, well, lots of stuff that was unnecessary.
Just the facts, sadly, people who have developed racist attitudes are rarely interested in facts:
Prison is prison regardless who or what runs it. You just want to cast blame other than those who commit crime. Black communities can only help black communities. Violent or not violent is moot.
I'm unsure of the point you're attempting to make? I had responded to this point:
Originally Posted by Ramen ...The issue isn't that one group is COMMITTING more crimes, it is that one group is getting ARRESTED more for committing the same crimes. We have no real data on who is committing crimes because there are some crimes that are never recorded, as an arrest is never made or attempted. ...
My point is clear. As for unsolved crimes, they occur disproportionally in black areas where people do not cooperate with police and would only add to the high black incarceration rate if solved.
Thanks for your comment. I would argue with them in black people committing more crime, they just get charged and sentenced the most. There are a lot of white people who either get slaps on the wrist, or have their charges dropped.
That's likely true, but I don't think the answer is letting more people go.
It's getting tougher on the white crime.
Most people in prison are there because they have "earned" their way there.
Justice isn't black and white and there aren't always reliable, honest witnesses or clear evidence so there are an undetermined number of innocent people who are incarcerated. Not likely that there is a huge number of any race.
Generally speaking, don't commit illegal acts if you don't want to be incarcerated.
Don't hang with those who do. Sometimes difficult to sort out the guilty from their associates and vice versa.
Many people commit multiple crimes before they're actually apprehended, tried, convicted and sentenced for a single one of them.
Low level, non-violent offenders should attend treatment/training programs where they work to pay their "tuition". If they don't comply, they can do the straight time.
Specific to incarcerated African-Americans
There is some institutional racism. Different in different places. Often hard to pinpoint or sort out.
There is a legacy of residual cultural issues from slavery, Jim Crow etc.
Communities, as a whole, need to work together to address issues that contribute to incarceration numbers
It's in the best interest of African-Americans to work diligently to address issues within their own neighborhoods such as mentoring kids individually and in groups, forming support networks, teaching and taking personal responsibility for self and minor kids, rewarding good citizen behaviors, teaching and mentoring new or young parents. Work to redirect from contributory cultural negatives such as "thug music", non-constructive street culture, gangs etc. One of the big things is dealing with parents, grandparents and family that deny, minimize or dismiss the misdeeds of their family members who are found committing crimes (i.e. "he's really a good boy, he never would hurt anybody," when he has been in trouble multiple times). Working constructively and actively with law enforcement is very important and having them involved with kids and citizens. Work needs to be done to build trust where people are more inclined to speak out or witness against those who offend.
I don't know how much racism contributes overall, but anecdotal stories on the news where there is video of crimes or crimes where there are multiple reliable witnesses of different races or reliable family witnesses in domestic violence assaults, murders, etc. appear to point toward a disproportionately large number of crimes committed by blacks. In my community, that is true, though Hispanics, which are in the majority are just as often in the news. A good number of the latter appear to be illegal.
Since most of us white people have never walked in your shoes, Heavenese, we can only speculate on some of the reasons for so many blacks being incarcerated . I think there are a couple of reasons, one that is beyond the control of blacks and one that they must take responsibility for themselves.
For the first one, yes, there is a large degree of racism in this country. We see it very vividly even on this forum, from time to time. There has always been a divide between the races, but it has gotten even moreso during this election we just had. There is no question that blacks are generally not given the same opportunities and chances that we whites are given.
Now, for the part about blacks not taking responsibility for their own problems, and I will be brutally honest here. I feel that, if blacks truly want to elevate their status in America, and stop this revolving door of going to jail, they need to say "enough is enough". There are far too many of your young who live on the streets and who take to a life of crime to survive. We do not see the outrage that we should be seeing from the black community, whenever someone is murdered, for example. Whenever the police try to get help to find the shooters, no one saw anything.
When my ancestors came to America, they had only the clothes on their backs, and didn't even speak English. But they worked hard, kept their noses clean, and made sure their children got an education and learned right from wrong. Instead of seeing the police as the enemy, they cooperated with the police and respected the job they do.
I am sure there are reasons that some blacks go down the paths they do, but, until it becomes unacceptable in your community to break the laws, nothing will happen. It has to start with you.
Had to rep you on this one Don.......And give you props for saying it.
I would only add, that while the bolded part of your statement is appropriate for the topic, one could certainly apply the sentiment to ALL intelligent life, everywhere. Regardless of race, religion, national origin, etc, etc, etc,.......
Personal responsibility is the single most important ingredient to any individual's circumstances.
That is one part of it.
The OP, OTOH, may have been referencing some other issue that may, or may not exist. If there are indeed some form of "ratios" as one poster mentioned, that may, or may not (I simply don't have enough knowledge on the subject to give an honest opinion) target a certain segment of the population, these need to be exposed, and done away with.
Responsibility is one thing, purposely slanting the "playing field" to favor, or discriminate for or against one group is unacceptable.
It is no different than having a biased media, advocating for one political position, vs. another. There is no such thing as "equal", if it is "separate".
Slaves vs Criminals. I don't see why you're comparing the two.
Slaves were, for the most part, unwilling participants of their circumstances. Criminals are responsible for their own actions.
Because the US Constitution explicitly states enslavement of others will be unlawful except for those convicted of a crime. And some US prisons have for profit companies using prison labor. Or the state uses prison labor for the cheap rather than contracting out the work to men and women that pay union dues.
So, you could say, the USA has reinvented the slave trade domestically.
But let's be honest here. It is driven by the War on Drugs. Domestically, people will doubt it was aimed at black males.
But had Vladimir Putin initiated a similar incarceration policy, disproportionately affecting white Americans in Russia, with incarceration rates on par with Black-America back in the USA, no one would doubt President Vladimir Putin was carrying out a diabolical plot. John McCain and Maxine Waters would be screaming for war against Russia and calling Putin Hitler.
But of course, in the real world Putin is not the one incarcerating black men in prison, selling their labor to private companies, nor is he incarcerating the citizens of his country at the same rate as the leaders of the "Land of the Free" are.
But let me point out. I have no felony and have never been in prison. The US could throw 100 million more Americans in prisons and I would not care. I am pleased to hear Trump may enforce Federal marijuana laws and thereby more of you Americans potentially thrown in jail and prison. What's good for the goose is good for the gander. I hate the high of marijuana anyways, have zero desires of thoughts to ever use it. I'd rather shoot heroin in my arm and I'm not an IV heroin user.
What are people doing to get jobs? You are against Trump's immigration plan when it would actually help with this issue. But of course you say it's a racist policy and these are jobs Americans won't do. Maybe they are jobs Americans used to do and no longer get the chance to do. Joe Blow out of prison can't get hired for much because no one wants to hire an ex-con. They don't have to because they have unlimited options to choose from a high immigrant population that doesn't turn their nose at hard work.
I think people deserve a second chance, but they have to get the opportunity for it.
She never has coherent thoughts where one thought logically follows from another thought. As you pointed out, her complaint about lack of job opportunities in the US does not logically follow from her support and demand for unlimited immigration into the USA, particularly among non-college educated, and even unskilled labor.
But if you point out Canada, presumably liberal and "progressive," has moved away from the old colonial model of trying to import cheap labor, to a model of trying to import engineers, scientist, highly skilled tradesmen into Canada, and the US for sake of corporate profit sticks with the old colonial model, she'll think you're a fanatical right-winger.
Cheap labor in the US began agriculturally with importing black slaves. Then it occurred in the industrial North with importing impoverished "ethnic" whites to work in its factories. Now the US imports a lot of Mexican labor. Notice, the professional class such as engineers, dentists, and accountants are trying to encourage professionals from the developing countries, in their professions, to swarm into the USA.
Engineers in particular must be worried given email allows companies to contract with foreign engineers. And US companies can hire about 3 Chinese engineers in China for the price if 1 American engineer.
So, you protect your jobs. Maybe you do that by not encouraging those like you from abroad to move here in mass numbers. Or maybe you do it by placing up legal obstacles to practicing your profession, like not recognizing the university degree the Russian nuclear scientist obtained in Russia. So, as in real life cases, you have/had Russian nuclear scientist bussing tables in New York City restaurants, the only jobs they could get.
Although, I will disagree with part of your post. In Wisconsin minimum security prisons have state programs in which the state hooks up with private companies to hire some of their inmates and pay the inmates market rate wages. So, these black prisoners are on work release getting paid $18 and $20 an hour. Consequently, in Milwaukee if you are an unskilled black man, you stand better odds getting a good pay $20 an hour job by being convicted of a felony, put in prison, and then placed in a minimum security prison, than being law abiding and applying for entry level jobs paying that wage, because you have better odds of being visited by Jesus (not the Mexican one).
She never has coherent thoughts where one thought logically follows from another thought. As you pointed out, her complaint about lack of job opportunities in the US does not logically follow from her support and demand for unlimited immigration into the USA, particularly among non-college educated, and even unskilled labor.
But if you point out Canada, presumably liberal and "progressive," has moved away from the old colonial model of trying to import cheap labor, to a model of trying to import engineers, scientist, highly skilled tradesmen into Canada, and the US for sake of corporate profit sticks with the old colonial model, she'll think you're a fanatical right-winger.
Cheap labor in the US began agriculturally with importing black slaves. Then it occurred in the industrial North with importing impoverished "ethnic" whites to work in its factories. Now the US imports a lot of Mexican labor. Notice, the professional class such as engineers, dentists, and accountants are trying to encourage professionals from the developing countries, in their professions, to swarm into the USA.
Engineers in particular must be worried given email allows companies to contract with foreign engineers. And US companies can hire about 3 Chinese engineers in China for the price if 1 American engineer.
So, you protect your jobs. Maybe you do that by not encouraging those like you from abroad to move here in mass numbers. Or maybe you do it by placing up legal obstacles to practicing your profession, like not recognizing the university degree the Russian nuclear scientist obtained in Russia. So, as in real life cases, you have/had Russian nuclear scientist bussing tables in New York City restaurants, the only jobs they could get.
Although, I will disagree with part of your post. In Wisconsin minimum security prisons have state programs in which the state hooks up with private companies to hire some of their inmates and pay the inmates market rate wages. So, these black prisoners are on work release getting paid $18 and $20 an hour. Consequently, in Milwaukee if you are an unskilled black man, you stand better odds getting a good pay $20 an hour job by being convicted of a felony, put in prison, and then placed in a minimum security prison, than being law abiding and applying for entry level jobs paying that wage, because you have better odds of being visited by Jesus (not the Mexican one).
Do private employers hire these former inmates once they are released from prison? Every state has programs where they train inmates to work on contract basis for companies, but my question is are they able to use those skills once they get out of prison? I know people are reluctant to hire people with criminal records, and since there are usually hundreds applying for each position, many with four year college degrees and many of the unskilled competing against people with no record, who would risk hiring an ex-con when they don't have to?
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Unlike the Clintons who would advocate for anything that put money in their pockets, Trump will address the job and education crisis and the illegal alien infestation that is making it even more impossible for blacks, especially in urban areas, to survive.
