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Your source at the top link, the Leadership Institute, isn't credible, nor are the claims it makes in your quote. Here's some info on it, for our readers:
Wise course and why should the State help anyone who is here illegally at any rate, when what you did can be done as well by ... anyone?
I don't know of many undocumented kids who go to college, but as RosieSD mentioned, they don't get any free perks. She is the person most informed on the topic since she works as a counselor.
Rosa, I really like your comment because you are stressing personal responsibility for education. I guess that is why I am not too bothered by the idea that the "middle class" scholarship for families earning $100,000 - $150,000 might be ended. It's my understanding that that it amounts to about $300 a year for those families.
Now, everyone would like to have an extra $300 in their pocket, but I really wonder why most families making $150,000 a year couldn't easily come up with that amount if the scholarship is eliminated. Heck, a motivated college kid could make $300 in a couple of weekends over the summer babysitting, waiting on tables, etc.
One thing I learned very quickly as both a school counselor and a private college counselor is that a large number of families don't really save anything at all or have any plan for their kids' college expenses.
Yet, they get really upset when they discover that there is NO free ride for college for their kids (and that is true for undoc kids too). Even extremely wealthy families often don't feel they should have to pay anything for college.
Now, we all want deals in life, and we also all want the best for our children. But, I do agree with Rosa that at a certain point, one needs to take responsibility for paying for your child's education or for your own education. And, that goes for all parents and ALL students, citizens or not.
Yes, we must take personal responsibility for our finances and the choices we make. I could have gone to a prestigious private university in LA, I was accepted to some good universities. But, once I saw the costs involved I decided not to accept those offers. I just thought it was too much money. I also didn't want my parents over-burdened by all of that debt.
I know people who owe 80-100k for going to an elite school on the east coast, they studied the same thing and we have the same job. And that was only for one degree.
Put the kid to work in the summer and have them save up. They should also work part-time, nothing will happen to them and they will still have plenty of time to study. Also, be smarter about cutting costs. Some people see it as demeaning to have their child attend community college right after high school. Why, if they can transfer and you will save thousands of dollars? Once you have the degree no one even knows you transfered.
I can't have too much pitty for people who incur all of that debt.
Yes, we must take personal responsibility for our finances and the choices we make. I could have gone to a prestigious private university in LA, I was accepted to some good universities. But, once I saw the costs involved I decided not to accept those offers. I just thought it was too much money. I also didn't want my parents over-burdened by all of that debt.
I know people who owe 80-100k for going to an elite school on the east coast, they studied the same thing and we have the same job. And that was only for one degree.
Put the kid to work in the summer and have them save up. They should also work part-time, nothing will happen to them and they will still have plenty of time to study. Also, be smarter about cutting costs. Some people see it as demeaning to have their child attend community college right after high school. Why, if they can transfer and you will save thousands of dollars? Once you have the degree no one even knows you transfered.
I can't have too much pitty for people who incur all of that debt.
I used to silently think of some kids as the "but I wannas." I'd show them how much debt they and their families were going to need to take on to go to a school like say... NYU... but they'd say, "but I wanna go there!" Parents can fall into that trap too.
Sadly, you are an exception to the rule in terms of making it from community college to a bachelor's (and Master's!). 70% of students who enroll in California Community colleges never transfer to a four year college or even get their associate's degree. Only 4% of kids who start out at community colleges with the intention of transferring to a four year school do so in two years.
So, I am cautious about recommending that the community college choice will work for everyone. It can be a good choice for highly motivated students, but if it takes you significantly longer than 4 years to get your bachelor's (or you never get it at all), there are opportunity costs. Those are years lost when you might have been launching your career and making a higher salary as a college graduate. So, if your goal is to get a four year degree (and perhaps go to graduate or professional school), you have to weigh those potential opportunity costs.
On the other hand, community colleges can be great choices for kids who are interested in getting trained in a specific job field where a four year degree is not required and getting out into the workworld as quickly as possible. But, even then, if it takes you significantly longer than 2 years to get that training, you're adding an opportunity cost in terms of lost earnings.
I always encouraged all of my students to look at a wide variety of higher education options and to keep an open mind about considering options that might not be on your radar. Although it doesn't always work out, private colleges can sometimes work out to be about the same as a UC with scholarships and grants, and you may have a better chance of graduating in 4 years at some private colleges than you will at a CSU or UC. System-wide, the 4 year graduation rate for the CSU system is only about 16%; in the UC system, the 4 year grad rate is about 61% system wide. Of course, there are campuses that have better than the system average 4 year grad rates or better grad rates in certain majors. Six year graduation rates are higher in both systems as well -- but, again, if its taking you six years instead of four, there's a potential opportunity cost in lost earnings (and sometimes more student debt too).
So, it's always good to look at a variety of college options, ask questions, and be honest with yourself about what is best for you and your family. There's no college path that is right for everyone -- yet there are many paths that can get most kids to a good place.
The key to keeping debt low is avoiding those stubborn "I wannas" and keeping an open mind about other options, just like you did, Rosa.
I used to silently think of some kids as the "but I wannas." I'd show them how much debt they and their families were going to need to take on to go to a school like say... NYU... but they'd say, "but I wanna go there!"
Sadly, you are an exception to the rule in terms of making it from community college to a bachelor's. 70% of students who enroll in California Community colleges never transfer to a four year college or even get their associate's degree. Only 4% of kids who start out at community colleges with the intention of transferring to a four year school do so in two years. So, I am cautious about recommending that the community college choice will work for everyone. It can be a good choice for highly motivated kids, but if it takes you significantly longer than 4 years to get your bachelor's (or you never get it at all), those are years lost when you might have been making a higher salary as a college graduate.
I always encouraged all of my students to look at a wide variety of college options and to keep an open mind about considering colleges that might not be on your radar. Private colleges can sometimes work out to be about the same as a UC with scholarships and grants, and you may have a better chance of graduating in 4 years at some private colleges than you will at a CSU or UC. (System-wide, the 4 year graduation rate for the CSU system is only 29%; in the UC system, it's 61%.)
So, it's always good to look at a variety of college options before deciding what is right for you and your family. There's no college path that is right for everyone -- yet there are many paths that can get most kids to a good place. The key to keeping debt low is avoiding those stubborn "I wannas" and keeping an open mind about other options.
What is sad is that for those who drop out, do not want to go to college or simply must work (as I did to support my mother when I graduated from HS) there are far fewer options left for work. Attending college has become the be all and end all for everyone and that is not possible for so many.
But the scholarship program under discussion would still be considered for elimination because undocumented students are not the reason it is being eliminated.
By the way, did you know that undocumented students make up less than 1% of students attending public colleges in California. In the UC and CSU systems, it's less than 1%. The only "funding" that these students all qualify for is in-state tuition. In the entire UC system, there are less than 1000 undocumented students receiving instate tuition.
A small percentage may also qualify for the Cal Grant if they have a 3.0 GPA in college prep classes, meet income requirements and have been approved for temporary residence under DACA (a Federal program). But, the Cal Grant is not automatically given to every undocumented student (or every U.S. citizen).
Nationally, about a fifth of undocumented students never graduate from high school, let alone attend college. Only about 5% of all undocumented students ever enroll in college --- less than 2% of all of the college students in the U.S. (That includes public and private colleges).
But, again, the scholarship program under discussion is not being ended because of undocumented students. So, sanctuary cities really aren't pertinent to this discussion. If folks want to discuss whether the middle class scholarship should be eliminated, let's do that. But, let's stick to the topic and not try to drag in other issues that are NOT the reason for the proposed elimination of this program from the state's budget.
OK, and while I believe the dollar range of income listed is enough for prudent and caring parents to assist their children get into a college, why is CA spending any money on those who are not here legally? I am not adverse to helping people, but every time I read a CA paper there is another budget shortfall and ... the taxes go up or service goes down.
What is sad is that for those who drop out, do not want to go to college or simply must work (as I did to support my mother when I graduated from HS) there are far fewer options left for work. Attending college has become the be all and end all for everyone and that is not possible for so many.
I agree. I do honestly believe that we are doing a lot of kids a disservice by insisting on the "4 year college for everyone!" idea.
I've worked with plenty of kids who really were not cut out to get a four year degree. Some of those kids would be better served by joining the military, doing an apprenticeship program in a trade, or doing a good job-focused two year associates program at a Community College. Some kids were really relieved when I helped them see there were other post-secondary education/training options besides getting a four year degree that could lead to a decent paying job.
Parents weren't always thrilled with that suggestion though.
But, I do think that as a nation, we should be to make sure every child has access to some form of *quality* post-secondary education to prepare for the workplace, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone should get a four year degree. Then perhaps we'd allocate secondary education and higher education resources a little differently which might actually end up being helpful to more kids and families.
OK, and while I believe the dollar range of income listed is enough for prudent and caring parents to assist their children get into a college, why is CA spending any money on those who are not here legally? I am not adverse to helping people, but every time I read a CA paper there is another budget shortfall and ... the taxes go up or service goes down.
You make it sound like California is the only state that gives instate tuition to undocumented students. Twenty states do.
So, perhaps you should start 20 separate discussions on this in each state's subforum, or maybe start a discussion on what state policy should be in the national politics section?
I think there are plenty of inefficiencies and problems in California's public higher education system, but making 1% of enrolled students pay out of state tuition isn't going to solve or even put a dent into those issues.
And, if you don't like California's policies, then move back here and register to vote.
I agree. I do honestly believe that we are doing a lot of kids a disservice by insisting on the "4 year college for everyone!" idea.
I've worked with plenty of kids who really were not cut out to get a four year degree. Some of those kids would be better served by joining the military, doing an apprenticeship program in a trade, or doing a good job-focused two year associates program at a Community College. Some kids were really relieved when I helped them see there were other post-secondary education/training options besides getting a four year degree that could lead to a decent paying job.
Parents weren't always thrilled with that suggestion though.
But, I do think that as a nation, we should be to make sure every child has access to some form of *quality* post-secondary education to prepare for the workplace, but that doesn't necessarily mean that everyone should get a four year degree. Then perhaps we'd allocate secondary education and higher education resources a little differently which might actually end up being helpful to more kids and families.
I agree as many want to do certain trades and are happy to do so. I am working with a CA college now on a special automotive class using new chemicals and they will currently be the only college offering this course and ... their students will be the only ones trained in this area and there is a need for people with such training as most have to learn it on the job.
I suspect a lot of parents pay little attention, they just want their kids to get a job and get out. Other care but are limited financially. Some realize their child is not suited for the tech type jobs but do not know what else is available.
Not everyone will be an attorney, doctor, Computer programmer, etc. Some like working with their hands. It does not mean they are stupid. I only went to HS but now own 3 business and have created new technology and hold several patents with more in the works. It took me years but I am in good shape financially now.
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