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From what I understand the liberal obsession is they think light rail is more progressive and elite than buses so they would rather ride that than use buses. I know people that think they're too good to ride a bus but will ride light rail..they think it's like hipster/yuppie and Euro trendy friendly or something. So yeah it's a liberal elitism thing.
As a trump voter I actually love light rail and especially high speed rail in places I have been to in europe and asia. Japan ,Singapore,South korea Deutsche bahn in Germany, Switzerland, tgv in France is amazing. I think high speed rail will happen in Texas and maybe California. So much better than grey hound in the sky - air travel.
I just think our mass transit in america is terrible, people just associate it with homeless, poor people and thugs, in my college town when I was in school everyone used it and it wasnt like that, even buses were not filled with vagrants.
I dont think Europe and Asia will ever see autonomous cars and transit replace rail, america is just full of social problems and mass transit magnifies them sometimes. Compare Sf bart/muni/ nyc subway, DC metro with Asia and Europe, our mass transit is very inferior
Even with self driving cars, I lived in DC for most of my life, it would be terrible in the traffic of northern virginia and Maryland and DC. How are those areas going to make it work, they are three "states" basically that dont work together, traffic in DC is a nightmare. I just dont see self driving cars making much of a difference
Last edited by floridanative10; 02-27-2017 at 12:42 AM..
I think the biggest change is going to be the car pool vans that shuttle the workers from home to the office. When these things are affordable the companies, the workers and the States will share the cost of the vans. They will be so much more convenient as they will pick up workers at their door and drop them off at the front door of their office. Private car pools will be huge as well. The car can drop 4 riders off and go find a place to park or drive itself home. AI driven cars will take half the cars off the road and they will be far safer and efficient. I believe it's impossible to imagine all the possibilities. Most cars will be elec and AI driven.
AI cars will put MORE cars on the roads as all of the people who can't or won't drive themselves will get one, further adding to the congestion problem.
And no, self driving vehicles are far from a pangea, they'll still break down on the road due to lack of maintenance, they'll still crash in slick conditions. By comparison, how often does this happen on rail? The answer is almost never, you'd need a major disaster to keep the trains from running like a flood or earthquake. They have crews whose soul job is maintaining the trains and swapping out the ones that need service.
Not true. I used to take the train to downtown and it would get delayed for all types of reasons, sometimes because there was another train we were waiting for.
AI cars will put MORE cars on the roads as all of the people who can't or won't drive themselves will get one, further adding to the congestion problem.
And no, self driving vehicles are far from a pangea, they'll still break down on the road due to lack of maintenance, they'll still crash in slick conditions. By comparison, how often does this happen on rail? The answer is almost never, you'd need a major disaster to keep the trains from running like a flood or earthquake. They have crews whose soul job is maintaining the trains and swapping out the ones that need service.
This thread isn't about trains, but here's an example of a trip a person in the suburbs of my city has to take to get to the center of town by train every morning:
(1) Drive to a parking spot somewhat close to the train station (there are not nearly enough parking spots at the train station, so you usually have to end up parking 1/4 to 1/2 mile away).
(2) Hike to the train station from your car.
(3) Ride the train to the south end of downtown.
(4) Walk or bus to the center of downtown.
And the cost of that trip is $4.75 if I remember correctly. So there-and-back would be 8 steps and cost $9.50 for a day or about $200/month. That's in addition to car insurance and gas that you're having to pay since you still need to own a car. It would be cheaper, although perhaps less convenient on average, to drive to work.
I'm not a car-lover and I do support public spending on transportation infrastructure and services, but I just get ticked off at seeing tens of billions of taxpayer dollars get spent on public transportation that we end up paying an arm and a leg to use and only solves about 1% of the transportation problems.
It's funny how the Sea Bass reject certain issues and pretty soon it will become a part of conservative culture to reject certain ideas like Global Warming. Now, the Sea Bass are going to be against light rail and trains? Comical
The reason light rail is favored is because it has a dedicated line that is not subject to traffic and results in more frequent trips and less waiting. Also, buses make more frequent stops. Light rails have dedicated and fewer stops that allow you to plan your trip.
Oh well, now you guys are going to lump light rail in with global warming. You Sea Bass never fail to amuse me. What's next...antibiotics. Is that going to be a liberal topic too.
This thread isn't about trains, but here's an example of a trip a person in the suburbs of my city has to take to get to the center of town by train every morning:
(1) Drive to a parking spot somewhat close to the train station (there are not nearly enough parking spots at the train station, so you usually have to end up parking 1/4 to 1/2 mile away).
(2) Hike to the train station from your car.
(3) Ride the train to the south end of downtown.
(4) Walk or bus to the center of downtown.
And the cost of that trip is $4.75 if I remember correctly. So there-and-back would be 8 steps and cost $9.50 for a day or about $200/month. That's in addition to car insurance and gas that you're having to pay since you still need to own a car. It would be cheaper, although perhaps less convenient on average, to drive to work.
I'm not a car-lover and I do support public spending on transportation infrastructure and services, but I just get ticked off at seeing tens of billions of taxpayer dollars get spent on public transportation that we end up paying an arm and a leg to use and only solves about 1% of the transportation problems.
I see what you are saying and I experienced this quite alot living in DC, its not always convenient to take the metro to work for northern Virginians and maryland suburban people working in DC. They have expanded metro lines to northern virginia and Maryland but the traffic gridlock just gets worse and worse because its still not convenient to take rail, people just want to get in hov lanes
The only thing I have noticed is the enormous rise in real estate prices when you have a house near a metro stop, you still have to drive there most likely but house prices near a metro stop have just exploded in value.
In our metro area in Western Oregon, of about 250,000 people, we have "express buses", instead of light rail. The transit district has committed everything to expanding that branch of its service and is spending huge amounts on it. The buses cost about three times as much as the larger, standard ones. They have installed separate lanes for about one-third of their routes, which is the biggest expense. There was heavy opposition to the newest route by business owners, which chewed up a lot of money for the legal costs.
But despite these costs and the pride the district takes in these express bus routes, they do not get you to your destination faster. I timed how long it took me to go from near my home, to the center of a nearby city, many times before the express routes began. Later, I found that on average, it took me nine minutes longer to ride the same distance, using an express route part of the way. The main cause was that I had to wait for one more bus at an intermediate station. Also, there are only one-third as many stops on their routes, so everyone has to walk farther.
If they had not gone into developing the express routes, but instead, had expanded their standard routes, bought more of the lower-cost buses for them and hired more drivers, we would have much better service and at a lower cost. But of course, federal grants played a big role in this. There are many areas within the transit district, that do not have bus service and if they hadn't put so much into the express system, they could have extended their standard routes into them.
However, we do have very good overall bus service here and it is used by many people. But express bus and light-rail projects are basically empire-building ego-trips for the administrators and board members of the transit districts. They are appropriating huge amounts of other people's money to build them. Every person who pays federal taxes in an area without these transit systems, is subsidizing those in other places. If our nation would concentrate on just providing standard transit service for as many riders as possible and leave out the frills, we'd be much better off.
Rail transit is the last thing you want, if you want convenience.
But it is the first thing you want, if you want frugality, longevity, energy efficiency, minimal loss of surface area, comfort and scalability.
Until an engineering breakthrough occurs, steel wheel on steel rail is the "best" form of land transportation.
The FUTURE is rail
Electric traction rail has a 20:1 advantage in energy efficiency over tire on pavement vehicles. A single track has the potential carrying capacity of 7 to 10 lanes of superhighway. The durability and lifespan of track and rolling stock is far greater. Concrete ties and hold down devices which have replaced spikes and tie plates have the potential to last, with regular inspection, 30-40 years. There are reports of track still in service, from the late 1800s (based on stamps found on the track and ties). There are “heritage” cars, built in the 1890s, still in service around the world. Science of Railway Locomotion The StreetCar Conspiracy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_r...fic_Congestion The Oil Drum | Multiple Birds The Oil Drum | Electrifying the Railroads - Alan Drake's manual
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Under current conditions of meddling government, it would not be possible to operate a profitable urban rail mass transit system.
There is one possible remedy: instead of public subsidy, grant zero tax liability to any business or employee that is 100% involved in manufacture, installation, operation or maintenance of a rail transit system.
The only way to make a profit is to get tracks down and paying passengers riding.
With the expectation of tax free profits, investment money will flood into getting America "back on track."
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