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View Poll Results: Take them down or leave them up?
Take them down. They're offensive. 133 36.14%
Leave them up. It's history. 235 63.86%
Voters: 368. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 03-07-2017, 10:31 AM
 
4,119 posts, read 1,391,412 times
Reputation: 1796

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ditchoc View Post
Those that forget their history are forced to repeat it.
Yeah! Save yer Confederate money boys, the South is gonna rise again!

Not

 
Old 03-07-2017, 10:34 AM
 
41,585 posts, read 39,336,284 times
Reputation: 13251
Quote:
Originally Posted by vroomerroomer View Post
As I say;

Said by me "And if so, perhaps your version of freedom is just like theirs ; Freedom for me but not you."

Country coming apart. Trump is just a symptom, not the sickness. I'd want my statue down taken down too, especially as the wheels come off.
You still haven't explained how not having the money to live somewhere = lack of freedom.
 
Old 03-07-2017, 10:36 AM
 
15,227 posts, read 5,509,385 times
Reputation: 6654
Holidays, statues, plaques....useless wastes of space. Take them all down.
 
Old 03-07-2017, 10:39 AM
 
10,193 posts, read 2,929,589 times
Reputation: 4450
Maybe the Greeks should remove the statues of their ancient Athenian forefathers.

After all, 80% of the population in Athens -- the "birthplace of democracy" -- consisted of slaves.

Maybe Europe in general should remove all statues of leaders from the periods of medieval serfdom from public places for the same reason.

Serfdom wasn't fair!

And what about when they persecuted witches?

And where was women's equality?

And what about Europeans practicing slavery in the New World?

And -- wait a minute -- didn't George Washington and Thomas Jefferson have slaves?

Why aren't their statues being removed from public places in Washington D.C. and in the north?

The American flag flew over states in the north that had slavery. It should be banned from public places, along with the confederate flag....
 
Old 03-07-2017, 10:40 AM
 
11,474 posts, read 5,772,671 times
Reputation: 6244
Where does it stop?
 
Old 03-07-2017, 10:40 AM
 
3,620 posts, read 998,142 times
Reputation: 2160
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bureaucat View Post
Yeah! Save yer Confederate money boys, the South is gonna rise again!

Not
It already has .




The south is now close to 1/3 of the country from census data in population, the liberal northeast was bigger than the entire south in the 1950's/1960s
 
Old 03-07-2017, 10:43 AM
 
9,985 posts, read 15,645,630 times
Reputation: 4599
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
It makes the most sense.

From what I've read, the Confederate States of America were outgunned from the get-to. Even Rhette Butler didn't think they had much of a chance.

Why the working people let the slave owners whip them into fighting a losing war remains a mystery.

But I can see where letting old Confederate soldiers parade around with some of their dignity was viewed as kind enough.

But the last Confederate soldier is long gone. Time to put that stuff in the museum.
I have no love for the legacy of the CSA. However, they were Americans and a great many died.

Germany certainly does not honor the SS or the Gestapo. But there are plenty of memorials to the ordinary Wehrmacht grunts who died.

Perhaps there is a middle way?
 
Old 03-07-2017, 11:01 AM
 
41,585 posts, read 39,336,284 times
Reputation: 13251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I recall reading somewhere that it was tolerated in order to bring the South back into the Union and squelch further trouble. Instead of a surly population chewing on defeat, a new set of myths were allowed to grow that gave them a sense of nobility. As time went on, it was easier to buy into that then think about your compatriots enslaving fellow humans beings.

This article said its closest analogy was post WWII France. Instead of pondering defeat and collaboration and the endless recriminations and vendettas that come with it, a myth of the "Resistance" was encouraged so as to unite the nation and move on.

In sum, you trade a proper reckoning of history for stability.

I cannot remember where I read it and am not sure how legit it is, but I found it an interesting explanation.
It is understandable how some might buy into the "lost cause" myth. It's a way to make people feel better about themselves. Being defeated, and knowing the cause being fought for, it is more than just chewing on defeat. It is chewing on embarrassment. It's more than just "we lost", it's "we were wrong". Being wrong is scarier than being defeated.

Hitler rolling over France can be thought of as embarrassing. With the South, it is this. Way of life lost, last gasp for it gone. There was a way of life and an economy being defended. One based on de-humanizing others. When you're told "your way of life is wrong and it is de-humanizing, it's a bitter pill to swallow. You will lie to yourself to make yourself feel good. Admitting "I was wrong" is more embarrassing than conceding defeat.
 
Old 03-07-2017, 11:22 AM
 
41,585 posts, read 39,336,284 times
Reputation: 13251
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moth View Post
I recall reading somewhere that it was tolerated in order to bring the South back into the Union and squelch further trouble. Instead of a surly population chewing on defeat, a new set of myths were allowed to grow that gave them a sense of nobility. As time went on, it was easier to buy into that then think about your compatriots enslaving fellow humans beings.

This article said its closest analogy was post WWII France. Instead of pondering defeat and collaboration and the endless recriminations and vendettas that come with it, a myth of the "Resistance" was encouraged so as to unite the nation and move on.

In sum, you trade a proper reckoning of history for stability.

I cannot remember where I read it and am not sure how legit it is, but I found it an interesting explanation.
I want to add one more thing to this. I live in the South. I went to high school with many kids who seemed to have a big reverence for the Confederate flag. Some of those persons were ready to defend it with zeal/anger. I ran into a few with an attitude of "you should be grateful you were brought here as slaves, otherwise you'd be back in Africa".

Another bizarre part of the reverence for all things Confederate is that some persons know what the Confederate cause was about, and wish it had succeeded. Some of the most
 
Old 03-07-2017, 11:53 AM
 
24,994 posts, read 20,065,850 times
Reputation: 11483
Quote:
Originally Posted by floridanative10 View Post
It already has .




The south is now close to 1/3 of the country from census data in population, the liberal northeast was bigger than the entire south in the 1950's/1960s
That map is highly misleading. All that "Sea of red" are rural counties. Takes at least 4 of those to make one blue county in the South
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