The confederate statues in NOLA are coming down (Clinton, ammunition, official)
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Yep, but the social justice warriors are increasingly incapable of looking at the whole picture. If any historical character ever did anything wrong by modern day sensibilities, that person must either be vilified or erased from history.
Why did po' white folk fight? Lets take a look at a few reasons.
John Townsend
Quote:
Non-slaveholders, he predicted, were also in danger. “It will be to the non-slaveholder, equally with the largest slaveholder, the obliteration of caste and the deprivation of important privileges,” he cautioned. “The color of the white man is now, in the South, a title of nobility in his relations as to the negro,” he reminded his readers. “In the Southern slaveholding States, where menial and degrading offices are turned over to be per formed exclusively by the Negro slave, the status and color of the black race becomes the badge of inferiority, and the poorest non-slaveholder may rejoice with the richest of his brethren of the white race, in the distinction of his color. He may be poor, it is true; but there is no point upon which he is so justly proud and sensitive as his privilege of caste; and there is nothing which he would resent with more fierce indignation than the attempt of the Abolitionist to emancipate the slaves and elevate the Negroes to an equality with himself and his family.”
Pastor Dunwody of South Carolina
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“Thus, God, as he is infinitely wise, just and holy, never could authorize the practice of a moral evil. But god has authorized the practice of slavery, not only by the bare permission of his Providence, but the express provision of his word. Therefore, slavery is not a moral evil.” Since the Bible was the source for moral authority, the case was closed. “Man may err,” said the southern theologian James Thornwell, “but God can never lie.”
Stephen Hale, an Alabama commissioner to the Governor of Kentucky
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“nothing less than an open declaration of war, for the triumph of this new theory of government destroys the property of the south, lays waste her fields, and inaugurates all the horrors of a San Domingo servile insurrection, consigning her citizens to assassinations and her wives and daughters to pollution and violation to gratify the lust of half-civilized Africans. The slave holder and non-slaveholder must ultimately share the same fate; all be degraded to a position of equality with free negroes, stand side by side with them at the polls, and fraternize in all the social relations of life, or else there will be an eternal war of races, desolating the land with blood, and utterly wasting all the resources of the country.”
Funny how blacks can't go back to 1960's w/o hearing crap, but tons of Southerners will never let the "War of Northern Aggression" go.
Yes, "war of northern aggression" is a silly term considering that the South chose to fire the first shot after Lincoln told them that he wouldn't fire the first shot. It was also their biggest blunder. The South should have sat tight, let Lincoln peacefully resupply Fort Sumter and forced Lincoln to make the first move while you go about the creation of a new country.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilEyeFleegle
"Chanting "All White Lives Matter," and "No More Brother Wars," the crowd, which said they were protecting their "white heritage" from the Charlottesville City Council's decision to remove a statue in the Virginia town's park."
What exactly does "no more brother wars" mean? I honestly don't know. Does it mean no more Civil Wars - brother vs brother?!?!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffdoorgunner
Lee and many other generals of the civil war were heroes in another war..........
True.
That logic only goes so far though.
Many Nazis were heroes in WWI. However, many areas of Germany may object to raising statues of Hitler, Goering, etc...
P.S. No, I am not saying Lee = Hitler.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Biker53
The Confederacy is not my history but for many people it is. My family was all in the North and were the victors. Their ancestors fought and died for what they thought was a noble cause. That many here today don't agree with that cause is irrelevant. It is a significant part of the American story and should not be erased.
Are you really "erasing" history if you take down a statue? This isn't book burning.
A statue simply is a symbol of who that community values. Is it possible that the community no longer values Confederate leaders as much as it once did?
Yes, "war of northern aggression" is a silly term considering that the South chose to fire the first shot after Lincoln told them that he wouldn't fire the first shot. It was also their biggest blunder. The South should have sat tight, let Lincoln peacefully resupply Fort Sumter and forced Lincoln to make the first move while you go about the creation of a new country.
lol you didn't think this through. Let your enemies arm and supply themselves, wait until they are loaded to the teeth and allow them to kill your people? Then retaliate? No such thing as a fair fight when it comes to war.
My point was not that there isn't slavery in today's world, just that your outrage is as selective as those you accuse of ignoring it.
In fact, there are more slaves today than ever before.
From the BBC:
Quote:
The estimated number of people in slavery - 27 million - is more than double the
total number believed to have been taken from Africa during the transatlantic slave trade.
That doesn't mean their are more slaves than ever before, slaves were forced to have kids with each other, and even before the Transatlantic slave trade in many societies their were more slaves than citizens. Roman society for example, something like 35-40% of their population and numbered 2 million just in Italy. Also slavery today is nothing like slavery previously. Even the supposed slavery in Nigeria, while still bad isn't worse than indentured servitude of the Irish.
Yes, "war of northern aggression" is a silly term considering that the South chose to fire the first shot after Lincoln told them that he wouldn't fire the first shot. It was also their biggest blunder. The South should have sat tight, let Lincoln peacefully resupply Fort Sumter and forced Lincoln to make the first move while you go about the creation of a new country.
What exactly does "no more brother wars" mean? I honestly don't know. Does it mean no more Civil Wars - brother vs brother?!?!
True.
That logic only goes so far though.
Many Nazis were heroes in WWI. However, many areas of Germany may object to raising statues of Hitler, Goering, etc...
P.S. No, I am not saying Lee = Hitler.
Are you really "erasing" history if you take down a statue? This isn't book burning.
A statue simply is a symbol of who that community values. Is it possible that the community no longer values Confederate leaders as much as it once did?
I voted to keep them up, but I could see the other side more or less. I just think it would be better to keep them up.
*You kind of are erasing history by taking them down. You're erasing the knowledge of the old pride people had in those people, which is part of history. I don't like the idea of teaching society there are only good guys and bad guys. I want to teach them that the bad guys were honored too. I'd like people to remember that part of our history, that the Confederate soldiers were genuine heroes to some, and I'd like people them to wonder why. I feel like this removal might be removing something important from history.
*One major difference between the Nazis and the Confederate soldiers is that the Nazi statues were removed very soon after WW2 was over (or were they removed during it? I don't know). the toppling of them was probably a way of healing. The wounds from the Civil War are all scabbed over by now, so far as I can see. I see similarities between removing the Confederate soldier statues and removing statues of Ceaser, the difference, and this is where things become controversial, is that Ceaser's time was totally alien to our culture, whereas the time of the civil war is not as alien. We still have stories passed down from ancestors about that time period that contain emotions we still consider to have been of our family members...so I could see people being ticked off at the statues too and wanting to take them down.
*If a statue is a symbol of who the community values, I think we should take down the statues of every founding father. Maybe we should also remove Lincoln's and Washington's head from Mt. Rushmore. Lincoln Freed the slaves, but he also owned some, and he said his goal was the preservation of the Union rather than freeing the slaves. Compared to the mentality of anyone living today, that doesn't impress me.
*I went to a place called Custer State Park. I have a great deal of disdain for Custer. I used to like the idea of having that park name changed, but I don't think I would like that changed anymore. I think I'd prefer for their to be another reminder of the crazy opinions of our ancestors. Upon hearing that a park was named after Custer, I burned with annoyance. Maybe that annoyance was a good thing. Maybe that annoyance tied me to the past better than wiping everything clean and naming the park after some actually decent human being. Maybe I should be annoyed, because Custer was an arse, and he was apparently honored.
Maybe we should name new parks after decent human beings, but leave the old parks the way they are, as a reminder of the stains of the past.
This is my point..in a nutshell...These Confederate monuments are a rallying point for some of the worst kind of people.
To them..it is not about history. It is about hate.
To an increasingly large number of liberals, our history IS hate. They want to run screaming from just about everything regarding this country's founding and it's past. They're the ones who are hating. Hating our country's roots and it's past, even though its just the past. Its intensely un-American.
But weren't the statues removed when Germany was occupied? Also weren't most of the Confederate statues built well after the war so their were really no statues to remove in the first place. The reason they should remove them is because they were placed there as a giant F U to the U.S government by local governments.
To an increasingly large number of liberals, our history IS hate. They want to run screaming from just about everything regarding this country's founding and it's past. They're the ones who are hating. Hating our country's roots and it's past, even though its just the past. Its intensely un-American.
Worshiping a statue of people who fought against America is Un-American. Also when you move a statue you don't erase history. The Hitler statues were removed but don't we know tons about Hitler?
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