Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Illegal, but pervasive. A "problem" to some but not for everyone. A "gateway" drug leading to a fast path to an O.D. for some, a drug no different than alcohol all considered for others. So what happens? The laws are essentially ignored BY AMERICANS and/or the use of marijuana is kept behind closed doors -- pretty much everywhere -- until..., slowly but surely it gets legalized. Walls and laws are not always the most sensible or practical ways to address these "problems," as change almost always surely demonstrates over time.
No, you have it backwards. Illegals are a problem to most but not to some as they profit from them and pass their social costs onto the rest of us. Illegal immigration will never be legal nor should it be.
Apply for a visa to dig ditches? Lay cement? Pack chicken into cans for minimum wage? Good one!
Some have been here for years, packing that chicken, with kids, family, making a living such as it is, good enough for them, working in any case, not raping anyone or murdering anyone...
"The "deport them all" crowd are considered awfully militaristic and inhumane in some respects, mostly just impractical and unthinking, ultimately pretty well ignorant about all they fear or concern themselves with when it comes to immigrants, legal or illegal.
But hey, when you've got an axe to grind no matter the justification, and someone like Trump to lead the way, we end up "cutting our nose to spite our face." How about we go after real rapists and murderers instead?
Those jobs didn't use to pay minimum wage until millions of cheap illegals flooded our border. Americans use to do them for a fair wage. Americans need those jobs back. Doesn't matter how long an illegal has been here or with family they are supposed to be deported according to our immigration laws even if they haven't raped or killed anyone.
It's not inhumane to enforce our immigration laws. It would be inhumane to our own citizens not to. We don't fear legal immigrants unless they are a national security threat and we object to illegal aliens because they are here in violation of our immigration laws and their negative impact on the majority of us. Get your story straight.
When I consider the negatives you are concerned about as compared to the rest of our problems, you might as well be asking me to worry about the color of a house instead of the fact that it is on fire...
Maybe it is "greedy employers" who benefit from access to an abundant inexpensive source of labor, but as I have explained more than a few times as a result of owning and operating an employment agency, a great many of these minimum wage jobs go unfilled if not filled by Hispanic Americans, legal to work in America, as I was responsible to verify. They, however, are not enough to fill all the jobs or do all the work, especially in a growing economy...
Top 20 Occupations* # of Immigrant
Workers in the US
Illegally Total # of All
Workers % of Immigrants
in the US Illegally
in Total Work Force
1. Brickmasons, blockmasons, and stonemasons 131,000 325,000 40%
2. Drywall installers, ceiling tile installers and tapers 94,000 255,000 37%
3. Roofers 76,000 246,000 31%
4. Miscellaneous agricultural workers 269,000 910,000 30%
5. Helpers, construction trades 52,000 184,000 28%
6. Dishwashers 101,000 364,000 28%
7. Construction laborers 556,000 2,055,000 27%
8. Maids and housekeepers 417,000 1,555,000 27%
9. Cement Masons, concrete finishers, and terrazzo workers 29,000 109,000 27%
10. Packaging and filling machine operators and tenders 96,000 369,000 26%
11. Grounds maintenance workers 356,000 1,413,000 25%
12. Packers and packagers, hand 119,000 504,000 24%
13. Butchers, poultry and fish processing workers 71,000 305,000 23%
14. Carpet, floor, and tile installers and finishers 68,000 306,000 22%
15. Painters, construction and maintenance 173,000 791,000 22%
16. Parking lot attendants 21,000 100,000 21%
17. Chefs and head cooks 75,000 377,000 20%
18. Sewing machine operators 49,000 248,000 20%
19. Refuse and recyclable material collectors 22,000 112,000 19%
20. Cooks 427,000 2,219,000 19%
Maybe you and others don't recognize what benefit you/we gain from this labor pool, and no doubt it is more for some than others, but try getting your roof fixed or motel room cleaned or food packed or just pick from the list above and consider when and where you too have benefitted before complaining TOO much about these people filling in where others don't. Let's at least not refer to them as "rapists and murderers" to add insult to injury. Fair?
Also let me ask you. Do you know ANYONE who would like to wash dishes or pack meat or be a roofer who can't get that work? Can't or won't?
As I said before, many of those jobs used to pay a fair wage not minimum wage until millions of illegal aliens flooded our border. Many of those lower paying jobs used to be held by our American youth as entry level jobs or to supplement their incomes. If we really had a shortage of American or legal immigrant blue collared workers wouldn't we increase our visas for legal workers? Hmm. What does that tell you since we haven't?
When you factor in the $113 billion a year that illegals cost us they are no bargain. Some illegals are rapists and murderers and that's just a fact. No one has said that they all are.
I know plenty of construction workers who lost their jobs to illegal aliens. They only way they could get them back is to work for minimum wage and be able to speak Spanish these days. The bottom line is why don't you have any respect for the rule of law and why our laws are in place? There is no justification for hiring illegal aliens nor to be a supporter/defender of illegal aliens.....NONE! It's simply anti-American.
No need to look in the mirror.
The divisions are not the result of normal people.
There is a percentage - maybe 25-30% (example- people who loved GWB even after the two lost wars and the Great Recession, etc.) who are called "Authoritarians" - more specifically "RWA - Right Wing Authoritarians".
Normally, this 25 or 30% isn't enough to gain power in our country. But gerrymandering and other election manipulation - combined with some other crazy stuff (Russians, loss of popular vote, etc.) have put a guy who appeals to RWA's into the WH.
RWA's are not leaders. They are not thinkers. What they do is follow whoever and whatever they perceived as "strong leaders".
Until we get rid of Trump and people like him in government, we face the real danger of seeing a lot of the old hate fests ........these people will be partying like it's 1935.
Here is some info on RWA. Of course, very few people are going to stand up and say "that's me!"....but, look around. Anyone who, for example, accepts the obvious and blatant lies Trump parrots HAS to be RWA. After all, it's possible to vote for and support a POTUS without believing every piece of BS he repeats from Fox News, right?
"For example, take the following statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within.†Sounds like something Hitler would say, right? Want to guess how many politicians, how many lawmakers in the United States agreed with it? Want to guess what they had in common?
Or how about a government program that persecutes political parties, or minorities, or journalists the authorities do not like, by putting them in jail, even torturing and killing them. Nobody would approve of that, right? Guess again.
Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did."
Those jobs didn't use to pay minimum wage until millions of cheap illegals flooded our border. Americans use to do them for a fair wage. Americans need those jobs back. Doesn't matter how long an illegal has been here or with family they are supposed to be deported according to our immigration laws even if they haven't raped or killed anyone.
It's not inhumane to enforce our immigration laws. It would be inhumane to our own citizens not to. We don't fear legal immigrants unless they are a national security threat and we object to illegal aliens because they are here in violation of our immigration laws and their negative impact on the majority of us. Get your story straight.
I agree on the illegal issue even though I can't stand Trump and his ilk. Illegals did not go through our legal system and thev've taken away jobs...like roofing, landscaping, house cleaning.
Building a stupid wall isn't going to fix the problem. The government would have to buy or take people's land to put the wall on. Many studies have show the wall to be impractical. Anyway, I think the Rich of both parties want the cheap labor so they are not really going to do much about illegals.
I know plenty of construction workers who lost their jobs to illegal aliens. They only way they could get them back is to work for minimum wage and be able to speak Spanish these days. The bottom line is why don't you have any respect for the rule of law and why our laws are in place? There is no justification for hiring illegal aliens nor to be a supporter/defender of illegal aliens.....NONE! It's simply anti-American.
A couple comments.
I was/am a carpenter....worked on many a project decades ago. Other than the union jobs (I was not union) the wages were terrible. I was a very quick carpenter and these jobs (framing houses, trimming houses) pay by the job. At my best - at age 25-30, I was able to earn perhaps 2X minimum wage with no benefits, health care, etc.
This was at a pace which would be almost impossible for many to maintain.
And so, today, the guys framing those houses - if they are good - may be making $16 an hour or so. That's when it doesn't rain. That doesn't include any benefits...and also isn't a real job. That is, when they run out of houses that need framed, you don't work.
Let's put that aside for a moment because so many "real Americans" are anti-union so they don't support living wages, health care and all that good stuff anyway. But as a matter of interest - do you cruise these forums calling anti-union people unpatriotic?
Now - let's take just a little of the "immigrant" problem. Who do most "illegals" work for? I can tell you that there are thousands of them on the construction sites in Miami and the area surrounding. I can also tell you there are a lot of TRUMP signs on those buildings. Does this mean Don the Con hired Mexicans? Of course not - they have it set up so there are two or three level of subcontractors so that Trump or the builder hires one firm that hires another who then hires the illegals.
How about the vast meat packing industry? Hotels? Restaurants? Vast Agricultural firms? Is it little guys like you and I who are the bosses there and hire these illegals and then pay them under the table?
OR, is it likely very wealthy people - yes, even republicans and trump supporters - who are ultimately responsible for hiring these people? Why don't they throw a couple of the employers in jail and see what happens?
I think you know why? Because it's the same people telling you to hate the immigrants who are hiring them and making money from their labor.
-------------------------------------
There are MANY other issues involved. Maybe I am out-of-touch but most of the young "real" Americans I know don't want to do "dirty jobs" and sweat in the fields and on construction sites.
BUT, of all the "wrongs" perhaps the very idea that you seem to be blaming regular old Americans for much of this......is the most fantastic! Mr. Trump and his buddies in construction along with Big Agriculture are perhaps the biggest "criminals" out there...if you want to throw blame around. blame it on the Republicans who refused to tackle comprehensive immigration reform. Or blame it on Ronald Reagan who DID Amnesty.
But why are we even talking about this? I'll tell you why. Because it's like the Nazi's and Jews and/or those African Tribes who are told to hate each other. The more that Trump and friends can get us fighting about stuff we have nothing to do with - we can all then hate each other instead of seeing the real problem(s).
No, you have it backwards. Illegals are a problem to most but not to some as they profit from them and pass their social costs onto the rest of us. Illegal immigration will never be legal nor should it be.
Please watch "6o minutes" this weekend MOUSE is in trouble. ask me if all their employees have always been legal--
Disney Faces $400,000 Fine for Illegal Workers : Employment: Company officials meet with INS representatives to discuss the recommended penalty. The park says most violations found in random check involve record-keeping. In 1990's yes they did--now it's cheap H1B workers- - but again, why those huge companies hire? Disney will be paying out-- some golden coins - they owe for over time and less than minimum wage wages-
I was/am a carpenter....worked on many a project decades ago. Other than the union jobs (I was not union) the wages were terrible. I was a very quick carpenter and these jobs (framing houses, trimming houses) pay by the job. At my best - at age 25-30, I was able to earn perhaps 2X minimum wage with no benefits, health care, etc.
This was at a pace which would be almost impossible for many to maintain.
And so, today, the guys framing those houses - if they are good - may be making $16 an hour or so. That's when it doesn't rain. That doesn't include any benefits...and also isn't a real job. That is, when they run out of houses that need framed, you don't work.
Let's put that aside for a moment because so many "real Americans" are anti-union so they don't support living wages, health care and all that good stuff anyway. But as a matter of interest - do you cruise these forums calling anti-union people unpatriotic?
Now - let's take just a little of the "immigrant" problem. Who do most "illegals" work for? I can tell you that there are thousands of them on the construction sites in Miami and the area surrounding. I can also tell you there are a lot of TRUMP signs on those buildings. Does this mean Don the Con hired Mexicans? Of course not - they have it set up so there are two or three level of subcontractors so that Trump or the builder hires one firm that hires another who then hires the illegals.
How about the vast meat packing industry? Hotels? Restaurants? Vast Agricultural firms? Is it little guys like you and I who are the bosses there and hire these illegals and then pay them under the table?
OR, is it likely very wealthy people - yes, even republicans and trump supporters - who are ultimately responsible for hiring these people? Why don't they throw a couple of the employers in jail and see what happens?
I think you know why? Because it's the same people telling you to hate the immigrants who are hiring them and making money from their labor.
-------------------------------------
There are MANY other issues involved. Maybe I am out-of-touch but most of the young "real" Americans I know don't want to do "dirty jobs" and sweat in the fields and on construction sites.
BUT, of all the "wrongs" perhaps the very idea that you seem to be blaming regular old Americans for much of this......is the most fantastic! Mr. Trump and his buddies in construction along with Big Agriculture are perhaps the biggest "criminals" out there...if you want to throw blame around. blame it on the Republicans who refused to tackle comprehensive immigration reform. Or blame it on Ronald Reagan who DID Amnesty.
But why are we even talking about this? I'll tell you why. Because it's like the Nazi's and Jews and/or those African Tribes who are told to hate each other. The more that Trump and friends can get us fighting about stuff we have nothing to do with - we can all then hate each other instead of seeing the real problem(s).
Quote:
Originally Posted by tinytrump
Please watch "6o minutes" this weekend MOUSE is in trouble. ask me if all their employees have always been legal--
Disney Faces $400,000 Fine for Illegal Workers : Employment: Company officials meet with INS representatives to discuss the recommended penalty. The park says most violations found in random check involve record-keeping. In 1990's yes they did--now it's cheap H1B workers- - but again, why those huge companies hire? Disney will be paying out-- some golden coins - they owe for over time and less than minimum wage wages-
You 2 posters' stories are GOOD reason to make life hell for illegal aliens AND their fans here in the US. Dem or Repub: all of their kind NEED to be punished and HARD. If it means prison time and seizing all assets, I'm good with that.
Illegals do good work cheap. When I need work on my house Juan and Pedro get a call.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
