Listen to Executive VP of Planned Parenthood deflecting on question of life. (salaries, attorney)
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I don't have the time to watch all the videos, and this is another from Fox News, but I'll take your word for it...
Interesting question or issue this while highly charged since it boils down to one's beliefs about God and/or "playing God," as you put it. Problem is that not all people view a fetus with a beating heart in the same way just like not all people believe in God in the same way or the same God, so is this woman right or wrong not to state HER belief when the whole premise for those who feel as she does is that each individual should have the right to decide based on what THEY believe, AKA the woman's right to choose.
Accept this premise, and perhaps the discussion can continue in a manner that makes sense. Otherwise, no point.
Another point of view is that if you take a fetus with a beating heart out of the womb at the stage of development normally the case with most abortions, that fetus is not viable or able to actually become a human being unless the pregnancy is continued. This is also a point of consideration unless of course you believe a fetus is already a human being. So far anyway, the law says a fetus is not a human being at that stage of development.
The further argument or discussion is that with respect to the First Amendment. For those who want to make the issue of abortion a religious one, the challenge is that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof..."
Accordingly, federal funds should not be withheld from clinics that perform legal abortions, not on any religious grounds anyway.
So there you have at least another take on what this women is trying to explain and/or promote on behalf of women's right to choose.
Fair?
Research the founder Margaret Sanger.....and read about Eugenics. There are several links.
Research the many former employees and what they have disclosed.
Also, why is an agency relying on federal funds/tax money if they can send millions to a dem candidate for Presidency. And be a primary backer of the Women's March.
There are many links online.
Last edited by JanND; 03-16-2017 at 07:17 AM..
Reason: deleted links
A simple Google search for "free birth control pills" turns up a lot of options. Here is just one: https://www.prjktruby.com/birth-cont...-pills-online/ So apparently you don't need PP for that. A simple Google search for "free pap smear" turns up a variety of options as well. You find out here that your county health department will most likely be able to offer them for free. It does mention PP as a "low cost" option, but I would think that "free" beats "cheap" any day of the week. It also mentions, "The National Breast and Cervical Cancer Early Detection Program is a federally funded program that helps uninsured and impoverished women get regular Pap smears. The program is available to eligible women ages 18 to 64." Also, just about any regular hospital or clinic will work with you if you need cheap birth control, a pap smear and you might even be able to get a mammogram there (which PP doesn't offer.)
Sure you're telling me that you used PP. That's fine. But was that the only option available to you? More importantly, is it the only option available to you and other women in your area right now? The claim being made by people objecting to the defunding of PP is that, "It is the only option for X, Y and Z services for many women." Unless you know something I don't, I think I've debunked that myth with barely any effort at all.
It is also true that PP was lying when they claimed that women relied on them for mammograms and prenatal care -- services that they don't even offer. So I'm going to have a hard time believing much of anything they claim in their desperate campaign to avoid losing all federal funding.
Who cares if it was the only option or not!? It's the option I chose. Period.
Who is getting free anything at PP that one can't get, if one qualifies for the same low-income health services that any clinic or any OB/GYN office offers?
Apparently a lot of folks think PP gives free mammograms too.
PP does not.
They do what any OB/GYN or strictly GYN physician does: refers one (gives a scrip) to a Radiology group where one can get a mammo. Even in 3-D.
Palpation isn't good enough. If you rely on that, you are an idiot, so we have to get an annual mammo. Which starts at age 40. Baseline should happen at age 38. In some states an annual pap and mammo are recommended once a year. In other states, every two years.
Anyone can go to any "free-clinic" (extension of a hospital..talk to your med student family members who worked in them during their residencies) and get a pap or a palpation of the breasts & STD testing. Free or low cost birth control "family planning" as well. Same insurance fees or lack there of apply & always have. Just as it does at a Planned Parenthood clinic.
One has to qualify for "free" or "low cost" no matter where one goes, including PP.
So why does PP exist, if not for abortions?
You can't get an abortion at any local clinic or hospital or OB/GYN office. You can't walk in to an ER and demand an abortion or a mammogram.
Planned Parenthood is all about abortions.
The sooner PP just admits that it is an abortion go-to vehicle, the easier it will be.
And this argument will finally end.
So you admit PP does not give free abortions, thus rendering that ignorant argument moot. Next.
I'd agree that consciousness would be a good measurement for "personhood", especially with viability being a "moving target" based on our level of technological advancement. It is entirely possible that at some point we may be able to gestate a human from fertilization all the way to externally viable without it ever needing to even be inside a woman in the first place.
In the same way we have a similar question at the other end of life, when it seems the "quality of life" is no longer anything of the sort but something that should probably, rightfully, be put to an end, terminated. Fortunately, though my father with Alzheimer's lived a few years in such a state, his life finally ended naturally, good for his sake and all of us who loved him. Fortunately we didn't need to make that same sort of difficult choice, about aborting life, such as it is, or not. Didn't really have the choice, though I think that is also a choice we should be allowed, like in Oregon...
I don't agree with the participant I commended for their honest reply. Honest isn't necessarily going to make people agree with you but they are honest.
I would rather discuss things with someone I disagree with that are honest than people who say they agree with me but aren't being honest.
Agree. If a woman gets pregnant & decides they don't want to be a mother, don't expect others to pay for it. I don't understand how ANYONE would expect others to pay for their problem.
An unwanted pregnancy is not only that woman's problem and not only the man's problem too but all our problem one way or another whether the decision is simply to have a legal abortion or have a child born into the world to become either someone like Steve Jobs or a ward of the state. IOWs, the notion that unwanted pregnancy is only someone else's problem is to truly misunderstand the issue(s) altogether, that affect all of us in many ways directly or indirectly.
Here's to better more wide-spread and effective birth control in any case, to avoid the birth of those problems altogether (pun intended), for the woman, women and men...
I don't believe anyone has the right to take the life of another outside of direct self defense. That has nothing to do with religion. If God came down and said it really didn't matter, I would still hold this position. I understand that with abortion there is the conundrum of when we have a person to remove their life but I believe it's a person from very early on.
Being a realist I also understand we are not going to ban all abortions so I prefer to concentrate on things we can change.
We would not need P.P. if we had Universal Health Care. *Some* reasons women abort would be less of a concern if we had UHC. I also support things like child care for low income families. I do not have a dog in the hunt per se but I've long supported gay marriage as that opens up more adoption options.
Programs for low income like food stamps? I support.
In Naomi Wolf's book Fire with Fire she (is pro choice) argues that society does women a disservice by not understanding that many do have negative psychological issues because of their abortion. You might argue it's because people try and make them feel guilty but all are most certainly not because of that reason.
Simply put, and I know you like that..., the premise of pro-choice is that the choice be left to the woman, based on what she believes. Not what you believe. Not what I believe. Not what Holy Rollers believe...
Research the founder Margaret Sanger.....and read about Eugenics. There are several links.
Research the many former employees and what they have disclosed.
Also, why is an agency relying on federal funds/tax money if they can send millions to a dem candidate for Presidency. And be a primary backer of the Women's March.
There are many links online.
Why? I've read and heard enough from women who have used PP and/or had an abortion to know what I think I need to know, also the legal arguments and decisions, or tell me what I'm otherwise missing that hasn't already been expressed in this thread one way or another.
Asking the question about why millions go either here or there is much like people who ask why we provide foreign aid when we have people in need here in America. If you don't know already, I'm not likely qualified to help you understand any better than you do, but you are probably the one who needs to do a little more research all considered...
A simple Google search for "free birth control pills" turns up a lot of options. Here is just one: https://www.prjktruby.com/birth-cont...-pills-online/ So apparently you don't need PP for that. A simple Google search for "free pap smear" turns up a variety of options as well.
Not sure what new we're learning here, but did your Google search not reveal how pap smears are free under the ACA AKA Obamacare? Preventative medicine, colonoscopies too BTW...
Women throughout the nation have already benefited tremendously from the provisions in the Affordable Care Act (ACA), better known as Obamacare. Services like Pap smears and mammograms now carry no out-of-pocket costs. This is important for women because studies show “even moderate copays for preventive services such as mammograms or Pap smears result in fewer women obtaining this care.”
Yes, thanks again Obama, but unfortunately those who insist on always going backwards have Trump now leading the way there for us, and just like it takes longer to build something than it does to destroy it, we're now going backwards faster than ever again...
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