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Old 03-05-2008, 07:12 AM
 
Location: South central Texas
31 posts, read 35,686 times
Reputation: 15

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How's this for an "Other Controversy"?

I submit that it is more harmful for adults to force children to believe in religious dogma than for adults to force children to have sex with adults.

Children can recover from sexual abuse. They can't recover from the loss of their power to reason.

If they're forced to believe that irrational "miracles" are true, before they have their rational faculties fully developed, the rational faculties will cease to develop as they should.

Children will remain convinced that there's a supernatural power that defies all that they are able to logically conclude through their own powers of reasoning, leaving them distrustful of their ability to think rationally and analyze their world critically, objectively and independently. They're lobotomized by the premature belief in irrational dogma, rendered virtual sheep to be sheered and ultimately consumed by the wolves in shephards' clothing.


The US Constitution's First Amendment says:

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

That amendment does NOT prohibit Congress from prohibiting the involuntary exercise thereof. That is exactly what happens when a child whose reasoning abilities are not fully developed and is forced to believe in the irrational dogma of their parents' religions.

I'd prefer that the problem be addressed on the state level, but I'm sure even the zealots who practice Judaism and Christianity in this country would agree that the fanatical fringe of Islam consists of humans who were brainwashed by their adult parents, or adults in whose care their parents placed them.

The members of radical Islamic cults, from which terrorists and suicide bombers emerge, were indoctrinated into the irrational dogma of a "hate-based" religion when they were young children.

Perhaps our Judeo-Christian citizens will see the merits of protecting ALL children from exposure to even their own faiths, in order to keep the American Muslims from spawning home-grown terrorists.

If these J-C Americans really believe their faith is true, then they should expect their adult offspring will believe as they do, even if they're spared from any exposure to their faith for the "formative years" of childhood.

What would this crop of young Americans be like?

The J-C faiths include the same irraitional beliefs in "miracles" as do the Muslim faith, and the non-fanatical majority of all 3 faiths push such beliefs on their children as "proof" that their god exists and demands that all "his" children obey without question his laws, so they will curry his favor. This includes laws that require a love and care for others, as in their neighbors. Some faiths believe their god demands they love even their enemies.

Fanatical Muslims, like fanatical Jews and fanatical Christians, are created by the same early trauma to their rational thought development as the non-fanatical sects' members. The only difference is that the love-based "laws" are replaced by hate-based "laws."

Other religions with similar irrational dogmas, along with the Jews, Christians and Muslims who force their children to believe in irrational matters as true have one common end result.

Their children cannot fully reason, nor analyze their universe critically, objectively, independently.

Their children have lost most, if not all, of their natural curiosity. It's been replaced with a sheep-like attitude that they must "trust" in "God" and in all their leaders who merely say they're n "God's side," doing "God's will."

It explains why so many people think the rag-tag Muslims in mid-Eastern countries pose a serious threat to our incredibly sophisticated defenses, including Echelon and Carnivore. It's why so many people think Ron Paul's a nut, and why the babblings of all the other candidates "make sense" to them.

It explains why so many people cannot open their minds, shut tight by fears they can't even articulate, let alone defend as real. It explains why so many people cannot think outside their sheep-pens, and turn to major league sports, American Idol, soap operas and Fox news as the means by which they can pass their time between shifts running in place as the wheel turns profits faster and faster for their masters. I mean pastors.


Write on!

Carloco
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:16 AM
 
6,561 posts, read 12,887,055 times
Reputation: 3165
You're all over the place with this.... Let's start with there being a difference between "exposing" our children to religion and "forcing" our children to participate in a religion.

Your use of the Constitution is a bit out there to say the least.... The first amendment has zero to do with teaching religion in one's own home, PERIOD.

Your comparison of passing on religion to our children to sexual abuse is nothing short of deplorable.

To respond to the rest would take way more time than I have, but let's start there...
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:22 AM
 
Location: The Netherlands
8,567 posts, read 14,801,920 times
Reputation: 1573
It is impossible to not expose your children to (other) religions or philosophy.
Keeping them locked up in your basement to avoid exposing them to another religion is child abuse.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:29 AM
 
Location: Sacramento
13,784 posts, read 23,803,102 times
Reputation: 6195
It is a shame you framed your initial posting to compare religion to pedophelia, I think you lose a lot of critical analysis in this discussion due to that "attention grabber".

Kind of lose your point in the process, it was a rather foolish way to present what could have been a fairly interesting discussion about kids and religion.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:34 AM
 
10,543 posts, read 12,009,323 times
Reputation: 2798
That's a very broad brush and extreme analysis.
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Louisville KY Metro area
4,824 posts, read 12,802,300 times
Reputation: 2116
I have but one question for anyone who discounts faith. Can you tell me of anyone who has ever renouced their faith while on their death-bed?

I have but one question for anyone who believes. How have you felt after knowing that you failed to live according to the true tenants of your religion, whether it be Buddist, Hindu, Christian, Judism, or Muslim?
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Old 03-05-2008, 07:50 AM
 
Location: Oxford, England
13,036 posts, read 22,014,596 times
Reputation: 19908
Kids need to be exposed to more or everything not less.

As long as it's done in an impartial and intelligent way, we need to expose our children to things we may ourselves even find distasteful.

They need to learn how to think for themselves, how to make their own minds up and yes even to make their own mistakes.

There is nothing so dangerous as to be shielded away from different ideologies, religions, philosophies etc..

Kids must learn that there are many ways of thinking, voting, believing and acting. That not all human beings are the same.

Knowledge is power. Ignorance is not only destructive, it is dangerous and leads to bigotry, intolerance, racism , etc...

I want children to be exposed to more of everything not less.
We should not allow our own feelings to take away our kid's freedom to think and choose their own path.

Even if that path seems wrong to us.

I am an atheist but would like to believe that if I had kids I would have enough respect for their intelligence and common sense to make their own minds up about religion or anything else for that matter. I would teach them about as many religions, philosophies and ideologies as I could in as open a manner as possible.


They have brains and hearts and to deny to them the personal freedom to be who they want to be by denying them knowledge is just plain wrong IMO.

Kids are not little porcelain dolls. They live in the real world and need to learn.
You cannot learn in a vacuum.

Children deserve respect as much as adults do and do not need mollycoddling. They need to experience life as it is not as we would like it to be.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:34 AM
 
Location: Minnysoda
8,622 posts, read 8,526,373 times
Reputation: 5176
So now you want to raise my kids?!?!?!?!?!
I don't think so. You wouldn't like my owners manual............
Eph. 4Fathers, do not exasperate your children; instead, bring them up in the training and instruction of the Lord.
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Old 03-05-2008, 08:51 AM
 
Location: Assisi, Italy
1,845 posts, read 3,888,349 times
Reputation: 353
Mao tried this. Limited success.
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Old 03-05-2008, 09:12 AM
 
19,183 posts, read 28,373,850 times
Reputation: 4002
The problem for theists in this general debate is that if you do not immerse a child in religious training at an early age and allow him or her to remain unindoctrinated until such time as they have developed and acquired the mental faculties and experience necessary to process matters and concepts related to religion on their own, the vast majority of them will end in being atheists.

If the default position is that no god or gods exist and one then waits for theists to provide legitimate convincing evidence of the contrary, the day of being legitimately convinced will never arrive...
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