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Old 03-24-2017, 05:48 AM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,582,790 times
Reputation: 37783

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Quote:
Originally Posted by moneill View Post
That's my thinking. If you are of the mind set our budget is out of control...the only way to fix it is to cut expenses AND raise revenue.

Cutting taxes is cutting revenue. Sure sure some would argue with the hope to stimulate the economy and bring in more tax revenue -- EVENTUALLY> But that whole trickle down and around theory has proven to be a little sketchy at best.
Exactly.

The auto execs meeting with Trump was a perfect example of the fallacy of the trickle-down theory.

Though they appreciated the tax breaks and his lifting the EPA and MPG regs, there would be no new factories. They were still only going to manufacture as many vehicles as they thought they could sell.

It's demand that drives the economy, not supply.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:49 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,959,063 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by bawac34618 View Post
Good. I think we should keep Obamacare in place as I think it's the best we are going to get without moving to a single payer system. I think if it went away, people would realize that it wasn't as bad as it was made out to be and a lot of people would end up worse off.
Health care should NOT be run by Wall Street which is what we have now.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:53 AM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,582,790 times
Reputation: 37783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They had the votes and DID NOT do this. They had the White House, 60 votes in the Senate and the House and we got crap.
This was back when Democrats were naively believing they could work with Republicans.

18 months of negotiations, 161 Republican amendments, and not a single Republican voted for it.

They should have gone for single-payer UHC.

We'll get there. It's all we can afford.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:54 AM
 
5,472 posts, read 3,204,630 times
Reputation: 3930
Quote:
Originally Posted by nononsenseguy View Post
Trump couldn't have known what a tangled web the Democrats created. They purposely made in nearly impossible to repeal. That's what Trump is learning.

This is the Democrat's fault. It is the albatross that will hang around their necks for many years to come.
What a funny guy..... I'd bet you more than 20 million people don't see it as you do.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:58 AM
 
13,586 posts, read 13,057,616 times
Reputation: 17786
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They had the votes and DID NOT do this. They had the White House, 60 votes in the Senate and the House and we got crap.
They weren't all that supportive of healthcare for everyone. There were a lot of scare tactics being used. Talk radio bleating about death panels, old people being warned about Medicare cuts. People were afraid of this scary socialized medicine and they let their representatives know it.

They did not understand that Medicare for everyone and single payer is the same damn thing.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:58 AM
 
13,675 posts, read 8,959,473 times
Reputation: 10385
I will simply note, as I have before, that when I got out of law school in 1984 one job I applied for was with a health insurance company. I was told, in no uncertain terms, that part of my job duties would be find any basis to invalidate health insurance contracts held by individuals that filed claims on new, and expensive, ailments.


One basis for voiding the contract would be the 'pre-existing' condition. If it could be shown that the claimant had a 'concealed' pre-existing condition, then the insurance company would declare the policy void, and thus avoid having to pay the costs incurred.


The health insurance companies had their own company medical doctors, hired to make the medical declaration that a claimant's cardiac problem (for instance) that led to a heart attack was a pre-existing condition. If it could be reasonably (or not so reasonably) shown that (in our example) the claimant had some undiagnosed condition, such as hypertension or diabetes, then the wheels would start turning to deny the claim.


Other ailments that were subject to being declared as 'undisclosed pre-existing conditions' included alcoholism, sleep apnea, Hepatitis, Lupus, and kidney disease.


To make clear: you have many people walking about with undiagnosed conditions. Back in the old days they would obtain health insurance, either privately or through employment. Often they would not be required to undergo a physical examination (if you were purchasing life insurance, you often did have to undergo a physical). If the person then became sick down the line, the job I was seeking (and refused) involved finding that the claimant had some underlying, unknown, undisclosed, condition that led, either directly or indirectly, to the current health problem.


Let us be clear: When people sought health insurance, they had to declare all medical problems they had. If one had diabetes, one would declare that, which, of course, would mean that either the insurance company would decline coverage, or would charge correspondingly higher premiums. I had no problem with that.


I did have a problem with the health insurance company actively trying to void policies right when the person needed coverage the most.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:58 AM
 
14,249 posts, read 17,869,289 times
Reputation: 13807
The problem is that pre-existing condition coverage - quite apart from any moral or financial arguments - has proven to be electorally popular. And politicians of all political persuasions love getting re-elected.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:59 AM
 
79,907 posts, read 43,959,063 times
Reputation: 17189
Quote:
Originally Posted by GotHereQuickAsICould View Post
This was back when Democrats were naively believing they could work with Republicans.

18 months of negotiations, 161 Republican amendments, and not a single Republican voted for it.

They should have gone for single-payer UHC.

We'll get there. It's all we can afford.
They should have started there. They were too afraid of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies. They were too afraid to lose their backing and money. We are NEVER going to get there until people quit making excuses and hold ALL politicians accountable.
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Old 03-24-2017, 05:59 AM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,582,790 times
Reputation: 37783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
Health care should NOT be run by Wall Street which is what we have now.
Keep reading that 30% of our health care money ends up with insurance companies.

We just can't afford that.
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Old 03-24-2017, 06:01 AM
 
51,584 posts, read 25,582,790 times
Reputation: 37783
Quote:
Originally Posted by pknopp View Post
They should have started there. They were too afraid of the Insurance and Pharmaceutical companies. They were too afraid to lose their backing and money. We are NEVER going to get there until people quit making excuses and hold ALL politicians accountable.
Exactly.

One of the good things to come out of this whole fiasco is that people seem to be waking up.
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