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I lived in Ontario Canada and have now lived in the USA for 20 years. American system would not work for Canada and the Canadian system would not work for Americans. As someone pointed out, for the most part because we are use to two different systems.
But both systems have glaring faults that need to be fixed.
To ignore those faults and try to soldier on results in victims......somebody loses out. Most of the time it won't be the wealthy, the politicians making decisions for us or the ceo's of the health/medical industry.
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And there we have it. It's harder than one thinks to switch the basic principle a country raises it's citizens on. America has a base of Capitalism. Changing that base is a lot harder than changing the decoration. It will take an extreme willingness from the majority of the population. It will take a magician to keep most employed through this change over. Someone, somewhere will lose money.
Answer, it could work but it will take your lifetime or more to implement it. I do think we should get a start on it though.
Sorry, no. Humans are humans and all humans need healthcare
That goes without saying. I never intimated differently.
Why this conversation causes people to become so emotionally distraught that they say things like that is part of the reason why it's so hard to have this conversation.
Exactly! You get it! Americans pay the costs, and the rest of the world benefits.
Without those patent laws, however, no one would invest in the the very costly research and development of new pharmaceuticals and expensive medical technology. Therein lies the conundrum.
True and not true.
Expensive yes but people who are otherwise going to die are still going to pay what they need to in order to avoid Hepatitis or cancer or other deadly condition.
We need a baseline public heath system that encourages and pays for managing accidents and low level chronic conditions. That is good for the country, it's people and is also good for the economy (aka employers).
We don't need to cover difficult or expensive conditions (transplants, elective surgery, multiple rounds of therapy with low probability for success. We don't need to pay for anything but generic drugs. If you want additional coverage - you buy it. If you can't afford it - too bad. This is something Congress, The President and the lobbyists won't ever come together on but it is sorely needed.
What actually makes HC accessible is affordability. This is something missing in the US. I can go to Mexico and pay less for prescriptions. I can go anywhere (yes) and get my broken limb set for less than the USA (assuming I am uninsured) and this is a travesty in the biggest economy in the world.
BTW, China spends $800 per person per year on health care.
You can see a specialist the same day - get an MRI and then go back the specialist.
We spend 15X as much......per person...for MUCH worse care. .
Expensive yes but people who are otherwise going to die are still going to pay what they need to in order to avoid Hepatitis or cancer or other deadly condition.
We need a baseline public heath system that encourages and pays for managing accidents and low level chronic conditions. That is good for the country, it's people and is also good for the economy (aka employers).
We don't need to cover difficult or expensive conditions (transplants, elective surgery, multiple rounds of therapy with low probability for success. We don't need to pay for anything but generic drugs. If you want additional coverage - you buy it. If you can't afford it - too bad. This is something Congress, The President and the lobbyists won't ever come together on but it is sorely needed.
What actually makes HC accessible is affordability. This is something missing in the US. I can go to Mexico and pay less for prescriptions. I can go anywhere (yes) and get my broken limb set for less than the USA (assuming I am uninsured) and this is a travesty in the biggest economy in the world.
Exactly. My son had the misfortune of having a bug crawl in his ear. It was very painful. I didn't try to get it out because I didn't want to risk damage. Off we go to the hospital. It was late and nobody was there. We walked right in.....Four nurses and a doctor -- because there was nobody else around.
They used an overheadlight, water and tweezers. My son was very upset and getting squeamish. They gave him a shot to relax him. They eventually got it out.
He had insurance and was covered under our insurance...but before we put in the claims to our insurance....Over and above his insurance we were going to be bild 1,800...for water, tweezers, an overhead light...one shot of some kind of relaxant......that was the 'out of pocket expense'. I can't remember what the full bill -- something like 8,000 --- come on. That is absolutely crazy. It wasn't an ent specialist - it was the ER doctor. He didn't need four nurses -- they had nothing else to do and hung out with us. Tweezers -- I could have provided those and the water too.
Exactly. My son had the misfortune of having a bug crawl in his ear. It was very painful. I didn't try to get it out because I didn't want to risk damage. Off we go to the hospital. It was late and nobody was there. We walked right in.....Four nurses and a doctor -- because there was nobody else around.
They used an overheadlight, water and tweezers. My son was very upset and getting squeamish. They gave him a shot to relax him. They eventually got it out.
He had insurance and was covered under our insurance...but before we put in the claims to our insurance....Over and above his insurance we were going to be bild 1,800...for water, tweezers, an overhead light...one shot of some kind of relaxant......that was the 'out of pocket expense'. I can't remember what the full bill -- something like 8,000 --- come on. That is absolutely crazy. It wasn't an ent specialist - it was the ER doctor. He didn't need four nurses -- they had nothing else to do and hung out with us. Tweezers -- I could have provided those and the water too.
Yup - welcome to Amurica.
Blah - what an awful experience. AWFUL!
An anecdote of my own: I had emergency gallbladder surgery a couple months ago. I went to the ER at 6:30 am and after a scan and ultrasound went right into surgery. I stayed overnight in a private room. My total bill for everything was $300. I have a United Healthcare HMO.
I guess the point I'm making is that in such a large country with so many available plans, it's natural that people are going to have wildly varying experience with their healthcare which will color their opinions when discussing the subject. Why would anyone with great healthcare now want it to change? I understand the emotional plea that everyone should have healthcare, but should an unemployed person paying nothing into the system expect to receive the same quality of care as someone who has paid 18k a year in premiums plus met a deductible through copays? I don't believe so. I think a network of basic care for low-income people is just but that it should not break the bank of earners who are happy with their own current system. Many will believe that's cold and unfeeling, but it's fair to not work your ass off getting educated and working very hard only to lose an increasing amount of substantial income in taxes to cover the needs of others. Basic services yes - but equal care? No.
Exactly. My son had the misfortune of having a bug crawl in his ear. It was very painful. I didn't try to get it out because I didn't want to risk damage. Off we go to the hospital. It was late and nobody was there. We walked right in.....Four nurses and a doctor -- because there was nobody else around.
They used an overheadlight, water and tweezers. My son was very upset and getting squeamish. They gave him a shot to relax him. They eventually got it out.
Yup - welcome to Amurica.
A little spray of some safe insecticide may have done the job! At least the thing would have been dead.
That sounds like, at most, a $500 job. Of course you are paying part of the overhead of the hospital - which is why having a lot of urgent care clinics may be part of the solution here.
The idea that we could just take another country's system and parachute it in is as ridiculous as it is fanciful.
But the discussion we are having here is a valuable one. All healthcare systems have their strengths and their flaws. In general, the US system provides good quality healthcare for most of the population. But ....... it does not cover everyone, it is twice as expensive as the systems of other countries and the outcomes are not so much better - if at all - so as to justify the high cost.
So what we need to be asking is not how do we look like the UK or Canada but how do we get better coverage, better outcomes and lower cost?
Blah - what an awful experience. AWFUL!
I understand the emotional plea that everyone should have healthcare, but should an unemployed person paying nothing into the system expect to receive the same quality of care as someone who has paid 18k a year in premiums plus met a deductible through copays? I don't believe so. I think a network of basic care for low-income people is just but that it should not break the bank of earners who are happy with their own current system. Many will believe that's cold and unfeeling, but it's fair to not work your ass off getting educated and working very hard only to lose substantial income paying taxes to cover the needs of others. Basic services yes - but equal care? No.
There are some big problems here and I can assure you they have been discussed at length by legislators and others. Let me lay out of a few scenarios for you.
1. George is the son of wealthy parents, but he is lazy. He doesn't work - but lives in a fancy house and has two cars. He purposely keeps his income very low (he could work, but why?).
He gets 100% of health care paid. - he will inherit a few million within the decade.
2. John lives next door and works full time - his wife works part time and they raise a couple kids. They make some decent money but it is all spent on their house, cars, kids, etc. - they have to pay more in health care than George.
There are literally hundreds of potential scenarios where income, means and other figures can be hidden.
In theory, the solution to this is means-testing. But many states do not count your "net worth" and many exempt your house. Not just a basic house - in Florida and some other places you can have a 10 million dollar house exempted from any calculations. Of course, any sane person knows just the taxes and costs of upkeep means that the resident must make money. But in the real world he makes it under the table and simply doesn't declare most of it.
So the real solution to your question is that each and every person, entity, corporation, LLC, etc. would have to be carefully studied to determine the REAL means of the person involved.
This is a problem that people simply would put up with...the solution. The same thing, IMHO, should be done more with SS and Medicare and other programs...but just try it and see what happens!
So - once again, we run around in a circle and come back to that ONLY universal health care will work to achieve the desired result. We may be able to address some of the other items separately....
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