Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
These people in Appalachia spent eight years screaming that Obama took their jobs. Trump attacked Obama and they loved it. Obama, who brought them health care and was honest with them. So now, they got their wish. The environmental restrictions are gone so will that mean they are employed? Appalachia helped Trump get elected so now, they're set, right? Who cares about burning coal, they have their jobs? One hopes that they will stop making excuses and face reality now that they have elected the man that will put them to work like they said would happen.
Well, we will see. If jobs do not return they cannot go back to work. If he makes things worse for them and they vote for him again, then I will fault them. I do think they believed he has the acumen to get this done, they put their faith in him because he was the only one to address their problems. The democrats miscalculated and now is their chance to make changes but so far they do not seem interested.
Well, we will see. If jobs do not return they cannot go back to work. If he makes things worse for them and they vote for him again, then I will fault them. I do think they believed he has the acumen to get this done, they put their faith in him because he was the only one to address their problems. The democrats miscalculated and now is their chance to make changes but so far they do not seem interested.
Ah but the left did address their problems. They just didn't agree with the way they were addressed. They were told they'd get training for other jobs but they wanted to hear they were getting their old jobs back. If they believed in Trump's business acumen, they weren't paying attention as Trump has none.
Well, we will see. If jobs do not return they cannot go back to work. If he makes things worse for them and they vote for him again, then I will fault them. I do think they believed he has the acumen to get this done, they put their faith in him because he was the only one to address their problems. The democrats miscalculated and now is their chance to make changes but so far they do not seem interested.
They already tried to help Appalachia, they gave them health coverage! Coverage they did not have previously unless they were on Disability! Were they thanked? No, they were demonized. Trump comes along, tells them it's Obama's fault and he will bring coal back. I know I'm not interested in trying to convince them of something they don't want to believe. And if they lose their health coverage because Trump ends Medicaid via Obamacare? Honestly, they deserve it. Then they will be unemployed AND without healthcare. Republicans were all too happy to lie to these people but they are adults, not children. They didn't appreciate the honest help so now they can live their vote.
That is clearly what I'm saying. Do not think you are immune. You have surely been conned in your lifetime and you will be again. Yes, how one was raised and educated can make a difference but we all get taken at some point.
Con me once shame on you. Con me twice shame on me. Most people develop a strong BS detector early in life, if they have any common sense at all. Mine went off the first time I saw Donald Trump up on a podium. Don't get me wrong, it goes off when ANY politician is pitching a line, but Trump had the needle pegged. It's really hard to understand how so many actually bought into it.
Anti-Climate? Humans have no control over weather! Anthropological global warming is the biggest scam shoved down people's throats. Great job by Trump to stop the insanity.
What is anthropological global warming? I've never heard of it.
Okay ... but doesn't the world's majority of climate scientists agree on global warming? While I don't agree with criminal charges or jail time for dissenters, I'd say they should present their own evidenced based findings disputing global warming.
Did they?
"The 97 percent claim is a deliberate misrepresentation designed to intimidate the public—and numerous scientists whose papers were classified by Cook protested:
“Cook survey included 10 of my 122 eligible papers. 5/10 were rated incorrectly. 4/5 were rated as endorse rather than neutral.”
—Dr. Richard Tol
“That is not an accurate representation of my paper . . .”
—Dr. Craig Idso
“Nope . . . it is not an accurate representation.”
—Dr. Nir Shaviv
“Cook et al. (2013) is based on a strawman argument . . .”
Con me once shame on you. Con me twice shame on me. Most people develop a strong BS detector early in life, if they have any common sense at all. Mine went off the first time I saw Donald Trump up on a podium. Don't get me wrong, it goes off when ANY politician is pitching a line, but Trump had the needle pegged. It's really hard to understand how so many actually bought into it.
ALL of us get conned at some point, it doesn't have to be in politics or even about money.
They are poor, desperate and believe him and want jobs more than welfare. I don't know why people don't get it. Haven't you ever known people who get pulled into things? My parents were trusting of people who spoke to them in a way that connected with their worldview. A lot of BSers know this and take advantage. Even some in their own family. I used to try to intervene but they didn't appreciate it. When they became elderly I stepped in and put a stop to as much as I could. I could get mad but I know it was not their fault, of course they didn't want to get ripped off.
Well for one, I listen to what these people say. These people have been quite vocal about their troubles and I am glad they have been. They are Americans who deserve to be listened to and whose experiences we should take into account. Secondly, and I'm sure you won't like this answer, is I read a lot. I want to know how this particular group of people came to live in poverty and why its so hard for them to escape it. Third, as I said upthread, I come from a long line of coal miners and laborers. I'm proud of my family and regional history and where I come from. I do think I can understand something of what those in Appalachia face since I'm not so far removed from them - culturally, geographically and through my own family's experiences.
As far as voting against their own self interests...I firmly believe Trump and many other far right conservatives do not have the interests of the working man in mind. Many far right conservatives are anti-workers rights, anti-family, anti-union, etc. Those things serve the interest of the working class. On the other hand, many far left Democrats have embraced globalization to the detriment of the working class. That's something we leftists have to understand when we are talking about jobs and the economy. However, many leftists support job training efforts for those people who've lost their jobs in the mines and other industries that will never make a comeback. That's why I never understood why people in Appalachia were so anti-Sanders. He has a very solid history of supporting the working class.
But do you realize the coal miners in areas of Virginia and WV are not the Appalachians. They do not make up the ~25 million people residing in the Appalachia region? I live in the Appalachia region. The coal mines dried up in my area a long time ago and coal jobs or lack of have no impact on the vast majority of those living in the Appalachia region.
These coal mining areas, at least where I live, are/were poor because they are rural and isolated and always economically depressed. There is little in the way of jobs, and no industry. People basically farmed, logged, worked for the railroad or coal mines. The coal mines and logging companies came in and bought up lots of land, basically stripped it of natural resources and split. During this time the relationship with local worker was akin to that of some migrant workers. Low pay and always in debt to the coal company for goods and housing. None of the profits were put back into the community.
Many escaped by leaving. There was mass exodus after WWII because all the jobs were north and thats where the people went. My father was one of them. Over time industries came to the area providing jobs. Few people in my state work in the few remaining coal companies. And job training does no good when there are no jobs.
A couple of points of self interest are Trumps plans to limit regulations. I dont know if you realize the ridiculous amount of regulations, permits and hoops required for some businesses. I work in the environmental field and we do subcontracting for government and private agencies. Some of these cuts and deregulation may affect me but I can see how out of hand some things have become and believe it needs to be reigned in.
A second is his promise to decrease the illegal immigration problem and NAFTA. I have seen multiple large good paying factories pick up and move over the border as well wages stagnate due to hiring of illegals in the construction type businesses.
Im not sure how you can say people in Appalachia are anti Sanders. Again your talking 25 million people. I know lots of people who would have voted for Sanders if the dems hadnt outed him.
But do you realize the coal miners in areas of Virginia and WV are not the Appalachians. They do not make up the ~25 million people residing in the Appalachia region? I live in the Appalachia region. The coal mines dried up in my area a long time ago and coal jobs or lack of have no impact on the vast majority of those living in the Appalachia region.
These coal mining areas, at least where I live, are/were poor because they are rural and isolated and always economically depressed. There is little in the way of jobs, and no industry. People basically farmed, logged, worked for the railroad or coal mines. The coal mines and logging companies came in and bought up lots of land, basically stripped it of natural resources and split. During this time the relationship with local worker was akin to that of some migrant workers. Low pay and always in debt to the coal company for goods and housing. None of the profits were put back into the community.
Many escaped by leaving. There was mass exodus after WWII because all the jobs were north and thats where the people went. My father was one of them. Over time industries came to the area providing jobs. Few people in my state work in the few remaining coal companies. And job training does no good when there are no jobs.
A couple of points of self interest are Trumps plans to limit regulations. I dont know if you realize the ridiculous amount of regulations, permits and hoops required for some businesses. I work in the environmental field and we do subcontracting for government and private agencies. Some of these cuts and deregulation may affect me but I can see how out of hand some things have become and believe it needs to be reigned in.
A second is his promise to decrease the illegal immigration problem and NAFTA. I have seen multiple large good paying factories pick up and move over the border as well wages stagnate due to hiring of illegals in the construction type businesses.
Im not sure how you can say people in Appalachia are anti Sanders. Again your talking 25 million people. I know lots of people who would have voted for Sanders if the dems hadnt outed him.
Trump told them he would bring back coal. Are there manufacturing jobs in Appalachia or not? Because on one hand the answer is, there are no jobs, it's rural and people are poor. On the other hand the answer is, Mexicans are taking the jobs. Looking at census totals, it appears there's not a lot of Mexicans in Appalachia. So how will immigration help them? If Trump builds a wall, will Appalachia suddenly be employed? Because building a wall will take years, putting tariffs on imported goods will make those goods more expensive, will negatively impact retail jobs, will create international trade wars (they will put tariffs on our products) and the jobs may or may NOT come back.
In the meantime, Trump will get rid of the health care they are receiving via Medicaid brought to them by Obama which they never appreciated, so I won't mind seeing them lose it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tamajane
ALL of us get conned at some point, it doesn't have to be in politics or even about money.
They are poor, desperate and believe him and want jobs more than welfare. I don't know why people don't get it. Haven't you ever known people who get pulled into things? My parents were trusting of people who spoke to them in a way that connected with their worldview. A lot of BSers know this and take advantage. Even some in their own family. I used to try to intervene but they didn't appreciate it. When they became elderly I stepped in and put a stop to as much as I could. I could get mad but I know it was not their fault, of course they didn't want to get ripped off.
They are adults, not helpless children. Obama brought them healthcare and was realistic about the future of coal. They demonized him. Trump takes away their health care and says he'll bring back coal? They worship him. Sorry, not a lot of pity for that, just like I wouldn't feel sorry for the person that quit his job because he saw a lottery commercial. I do want to see them own their situation and now that they elected Trump, they have no excuses.
Trump told them he would bring back coal. Are there manufacturing jobs in Appalachia or not? Because on one hand the answer is, there are no jobs, it's rural and people are poor. On the other hand the answer is, Mexicans are taking the jobs. Looking at census totals, it appears there's not a lot of Mexicans in Appalachia. So how will immigration help them? If Trump builds a wall, will Appalachia suddenly be employed? Because building a wall will take years, putting tariffs on imported goods will make those goods more expensive, will negatively impact retail jobs, will create international trade wars (they will put tariffs on our products) and the jobs may or may NOT come back.
You do realize Appalachia is a vast region consisting of 420 counties, 13 states and encompassing ~25 million people, right. So you think coal mining is the only industry, you think it is all rural, you think everyone is poor? In some regions the coal companies are starting to doing better since regulations have been lifted . Will it ever go back to its boom, no. Will everyone who lost a job in the coal industry be rehired, no. I'm not sure who this "they" is you speak of. Will decreasing the illegal alien population help citizens get jobs in construction and service positions, yes. Will it eventually see wages in those fields increase at least to what they were 8-10 years ago, yes.
Nothing is going to be suddenly.
Quote:
In the meantime, Trump will get rid of the health care they are receiving via Medicaid brought to them by Obama which they never appreciated, so I won't mind seeing them lose it.
Oh, please. The poor are not going to lose their medicaid.
Quote:
They are adults, not helpless children. Obama brought them healthcare and was realistic about the future of coal. They demonized him. Trump takes away their health care and says he'll bring back coal? They worship him. Sorry, not a lot of pity for that, just like I wouldn't feel sorry for the person that quit his job because he saw a lottery commercial. I do want to see them own their situation and now that they elected Trump, they have no excuses.
Most had health care before Obama, they had medicaid before Obama.
Who the heck are the "they" you keep talking about.
I dont work in a coal mine. I had medical insurance before Obama and I still have the same health insurance.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
